Is EHU metering a good investment?

GEandGJE replied on 28/11/2022 17:23

Posted on 28/11/2022 17:23

I was going to post this in the thread that has been Deleted User as a number of folk were saying that EHU Metering would make pitch prices cheaper, so Let's play the You Said, We Listened and Implemented game. This is my view based on my experience as an IT Infrastructure Project Manager and in IT Procurement.  To satisfy the We don't want EHU and want cheaper pitch prices group of people, the We only want to pay for the electricity we use group of people and the I'll pay whatever as I'm on holiday group of people, the clubs only option is to move to metered usage. How does the club do that and what investment would be needed. Lets estimate that the club has over 10,000 pitches with an average of 2 hookups per bollard that's 5,000 bollards that will need to be modified and/or replaced and some of those will need groundwork undertaken for new cabling etc, it will require  putting all pitches out of action and subsequent loss of income whilst the work takes place. This can't all be done at once and I think that a 5 year rollout period would be a stretch and it would take a dedicated team at HQ to manage. They would need to procure equipment, electrical installation teams, groundwork teams, IT systems and software to operate the metering and payments, negotiate contracts with all the power companies who supply the club sites and negotiate with any land owners. I don't think you would get much change from a £5 million investment of the clubs (our) money. Issues that the club would need to consider 1) leased sites where the land owner doesn't give permission for the work to be carried out or the lease will soon come to an end 2) the price per kW from each of the power suppliers will vary depending on contract length and renewal dates, so do they average that price out across all sites or do you have different EHU costs in different areas of the network 3) do you factor the suppliers standing charge into the  metered cost,  4) the club would need to move to a credit card only payment system where the payment for EUH used is automatically deducted at the end of your stay 5) a central dispute resolution team, as there will always be people who will challenge the bill and that shouldn't be the on site teams and finally the biggest question for the club, 6) what return on investment will the club get. I doubt very much that the savings made from the electricity used would come close to the investment needed therefore the remaining investment would need to come from reserves and most likely recouped from increased pitch prices. Lastly this would give the club a very inconsistent offering with not all sites offering metered EUH, the cost of EHU could vary from site to site and an even bigger price variance across the network. Not a very good Business Case in my view, in terms of both investment and inconvenience to the membership so I can't see it happening I'm afraid.

Rocky 2 buckets replied on 04/12/2022 10:09

Posted on 04/12/2022 09:57 by young thomas

You're right, and that's not cheap either....but I am referring to folk who might stay a little longer than a weekendšŸ˜‰

our costs are spread over 60-90 days so it doesn't (seem to) hurt quite as much.

this autumn electric costs were ā‚¬0.40 a kWh. I'll be back again this spring so it'll be interesting to check on them.

im sure my upcoming contract has ā‚¬0.40 in it.

Posted on 04/12/2022 10:09

We have an accordšŸ‘šŸ»šŸ˜Š

mickysf replied on 04/12/2022 10:43

Posted on 04/12/2022 09:25 by ChocolateTrees

YT,

I am not sure 40kWh has been mentioned as a sensible usage? That would be a HUGE amount of electricity drawn by a single caravan or camper. Close to a constant 1.7kW for the entire 24h period. Even 24kWh would be pushing it for a ā€œnormalā€ user, but might be used in winter. 
If you add an awning heater, running 24h then you might approach that, but that is discouraged by the club and many CL. Car charging could take you close to that number, but even that would be tough without risk of tripping a breaker. 

However, 40kWh in a 24h period is possible, even on a 10a hookup. And at 60p/kWh that is Ā£24 not Ā£15. Completely unsustainable on a commercial pitch, as you say. 

Posted on 04/12/2022 10:43

I’m finding some figures claimed by ‘campers’ astonishing. Our total energy kWh usage over 24hrs at home is on average 14 units (summer) 22 (winters). 
Some must have saunas and jacuzzis running in their awnings!

Hja replied on 04/12/2022 11:04

Posted on 04/12/2022 10:43 by mickysf

Iā€™m finding some figures claimed by ā€˜campersā€™ astonishing. Our total energy kWh usage over 24hrs at home is on average 14 units (summer) 22 (winters). 
Some must have saunas and jacuzzis running in their awnings!

Posted on 04/12/2022 11:04

Is that total energy or just electricity? Our winter domestic electricity is much higher than that, but we are totally electric, including heating and the car.

mickysf replied on 04/12/2022 11:08

Posted on 04/12/2022 11:04 by Hja

Is that total energy or just electricity? Our winter domestic electricity is much higher than that, but we are totally electric, including heating and the car.

Posted on 04/12/2022 11:08

As said, total energy. That’s everything, no gas, or oil, or slid fuel, or solar panels, only electricity! 
Not charging the car though.

replied on 04/12/2022 11:09

Posted on 04/12/2022 10:43 by mickysf

Iā€™m finding some figures claimed by ā€˜campersā€™ astonishing. Our total energy kWh usage over 24hrs at home is on average 14 units (summer) 22 (winters). 
Some must have saunas and jacuzzis running in their awnings!

Posted on 04/12/2022 11:09

The user and all related content has been Deleted User

mickysf replied on 04/12/2022 11:38

Posted on 04/12/2022 11:38

There really is a serious problem if some campers are using those figures quoted. They must be the ‘I’ve paid for it’, I’m keeping my pets warm, awning 24/7 toasty, don’t care brigade’. 

Those requests on the back of the toilet doors I read on the last site I was on clearly aren’t working with some. We are clearly paying for their selfishness and may well continue to do so. So what’s to do about them?

ChocolateTrees replied on 04/12/2022 12:39

Posted on 04/12/2022 09:52 by young thomas

CT, apologies for the appalling maths (let's call it a typošŸ˜‰) ....I think it was PeeDee that mentioned this large number..

either way, even say 24kwh, that would produce the Ā£15 I was referring to, so the rest of the post, and the potential unfolding scenarios, hold true.

Posted on 04/12/2022 12:39

Totally agree!

My take on this is the 1st step in being able to make a change is knowledge. Awareness of what one is using is the only way to make a decision to continue or cut down. It’s the reason that smart meters with on home displays work. You can see very easily what is being used and take action to cut down if needed. Meters on pitches offer this functionality. A nice big notice at Check-In with the cost for an “average” stay in £ and kWh for a couple and/or a family of 4 in summer and winter, gives a target for folk to aim at. 
knowlege is power (pun intended) (I’ll get my coat)

mickysf replied on 04/12/2022 13:12

Posted on 04/12/2022 12:39 by ChocolateTrees

Totally agree!

My take on this is the 1st step in being able to make a change is knowledge. Awareness of what one is using is the only way to make a decision to continue or cut down. Itā€™s the reason that smart meters with on home displays work. You can see very easily what is being used and take action to cut down if needed. Meters on pitches offer this functionality. A nice big notice at Check-In with the cost for an ā€œaverageā€ stay in Ā£ and kWh for a couple and/or a family of 4 in summer and winter, gives a target for folk to aim at. 
knowlege is power (pun intended) (Iā€™ll get my coat)

Posted on 04/12/2022 13:12

Hang on, before you get that coat, it may help keep you warm but seriously that nice big notice will be ignored by those selfish users. Thing is, any future pricing plan will be based on historic data and they, the heavy consumers, will be included in this. We will therefore continue to pay for their contributions to the data. Now some may say they are in the minority and peanuts in the grand scheme of things but every bit does help we must continue to believe. It seems to me that a network wide installation of metered pitches is very much for the future and way down the line. Too late possibly for many of us and certainly of no help in the current energy crisis. May be better right now to replace all those breakers to deliver far less amps. Happy trips ahead!

ChocolateTrees replied on 04/12/2022 13:20

Posted on 04/12/2022 13:12 by mickysf

Hang on, before you get that coat, it may help keep you warm but seriously that nice big notice will be ignored by those selfish users. Thing is, any future pricing plan will be based on historic data and they, the heavy consumers, will be included in this. Now some may say they are in the minority and peanuts in the grand scheme of things but every bit does help we must continue to believe. It seems to me that a network wide installation of metered pitches is very much for the future and way down the line. Too late possibly for many of us and certainly of no help in the current energy crisis. May be better right now to replace all those breakers to deliver far less amps.

Posted on 04/12/2022 13:20

Mickysf,

the point is, by then you are on a meter an paying for what you use at the going rate. The notices just give you an indication of what you might use, and therefore what it might cost. If heating the awning is your thing, the so be it, but prepare to pay for it. 

But yes - it’s a future plan. Any rollout will take time.

mickysf replied on 04/12/2022 13:27

Posted on 04/12/2022 13:20 by ChocolateTrees

Mickysf,

the point is, by then you are on a meter an paying for what you use at the going rate. The notices just give you an indication of what you might use, and therefore what it might cost. If heating the awning is your thing, the so be it, but prepare to pay for it. 

But yes - itā€™s a future plan. Any rollout will take time.

Posted on 04/12/2022 13:27

Totally understand and agree, CTs. My point is that we will continue to pay for those that excessively use. Unfortunately it’s the likes of the ‘you’ thing that we careful users are currently subsidising. That can’t be right.

Unfortunately there are some that say they will not reduce usage until others do, I’m not one of them either. That roll out is way, way in the future me thinks!

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