Is EHU metering a good investment?

GEandGJE replied on 28/11/2022 17:23

Posted on 28/11/2022 17:23

I was going to post this in the thread that has been Deleted User as a number of folk were saying that EHU Metering would make pitch prices cheaper, so Let's play the You Said, We Listened and Implemented game. This is my view based on my experience as an IT Infrastructure Project Manager and in IT Procurement.  To satisfy the We don't want EHU and want cheaper pitch prices group of people, the We only want to pay for the electricity we use group of people and the I'll pay whatever as I'm on holiday group of people, the clubs only option is to move to metered usage. How does the club do that and what investment would be needed. Lets estimate that the club has over 10,000 pitches with an average of 2 hookups per bollard that's 5,000 bollards that will need to be modified and/or replaced and some of those will need groundwork undertaken for new cabling etc, it will require  putting all pitches out of action and subsequent loss of income whilst the work takes place. This can't all be done at once and I think that a 5 year rollout period would be a stretch and it would take a dedicated team at HQ to manage. They would need to procure equipment, electrical installation teams, groundwork teams, IT systems and software to operate the metering and payments, negotiate contracts with all the power companies who supply the club sites and negotiate with any land owners. I don't think you would get much change from a £5 million investment of the clubs (our) money. Issues that the club would need to consider 1) leased sites where the land owner doesn't give permission for the work to be carried out or the lease will soon come to an end 2) the price per kW from each of the power suppliers will vary depending on contract length and renewal dates, so do they average that price out across all sites or do you have different EHU costs in different areas of the network 3) do you factor the suppliers standing charge into the  metered cost,  4) the club would need to move to a credit card only payment system where the payment for EUH used is automatically deducted at the end of your stay 5) a central dispute resolution team, as there will always be people who will challenge the bill and that shouldn't be the on site teams and finally the biggest question for the club, 6) what return on investment will the club get. I doubt very much that the savings made from the electricity used would come close to the investment needed therefore the remaining investment would need to come from reserves and most likely recouped from increased pitch prices. Lastly this would give the club a very inconsistent offering with not all sites offering metered EUH, the cost of EHU could vary from site to site and an even bigger price variance across the network. Not a very good Business Case in my view, in terms of both investment and inconvenience to the membership so I can't see it happening I'm afraid.

Oscarmax replied on 29/11/2022 16:14

Posted on 29/11/2022 14:38 by

I'm with Octopus and they kindly breakdown my usage info in different ways enabling me to check consumption.  I don't / won't have a smart meter but assume they provide equally informative breakdowns.  I have just checked our exact electricity usage for October. 319kWh's which is considered low to average for our type of property, etc, etc.  That's just 10.29kWh per day from a supply capable of providing 100A.  

For an LV on a site providing a max of 16A and without the use of heavy drain items such as Dishwasher, Washing machine and Tumble drier, I would expect much lower consumption.  Perhaps 3-5 kWh per day.  Of course, even if CC Ltd is paying an exorbitantly high tariff of say £1.00 per kWh that means their customers are only using £3 - £5 per day.  

Posted on 29/11/2022 16:14

We are also with Octopus October 201.4 kWh we are at home all day, 128.3 kWh used to charge our PHEV

DavidKlyne replied on 29/11/2022 17:25

Posted on 29/11/2022 17:25

We are also with Octopus and they do provide and abundance of information. I was surprised we used more electricity in August than we have currently in November! We do have Smart Meters so I assume that allows them to break-down usage quite minutely?

I may have posted this elsewhere but it might be useful to add here as well. A CL owner recently posted on Facebook about their experience of changing to metering. They obviously have a bit of a hybrid system as they include 10 KwH usage in the daily price of the CL which I feel is quite generous? The Owner has been monitoring it since its introduction and (I think) was surprised to find nobody going over the 10 KwH limit. Some were considerably below that figure, others closer. If that turns out to be the general experience over a long period then perhaps there was no advantage in putting meters in? Now it could be that those using the CL were perhaps a bit more careful in their energy use because it was a CL? Translating to Club sites it would suggest that usage would be on average between £3 and £6 a day which could be the possible reduction one should expect in site fees if meters were installed?

David

replied on 29/11/2022 18:07

Posted on 29/11/2022 17:25 by DavidKlyne

We are also with Octopus and they do provide and abundance of information. I was surprised we used more electricity in August than we have currently in November! We do have Smart Meters so I assume that allows them to break-down usage quite minutely?

I may have posted this elsewhere but it might be useful to add here as well. A CL owner recently posted on Facebook about their experience of changing to metering. They obviously have a bit of a hybrid system as they include 10 KwH usage in the daily price of the CL which I feel is quite generous? The Owner has been monitoring it since its introduction and (I think) was surprised to find nobody going over the 10 KwH limit. Some were considerably below that figure, others closer. If that turns out to be the general experience over a long period then perhaps there was no advantage in putting meters in? Now it could be that those using the CL were perhaps a bit more careful in their energy use because it was a CL? Translating to Club sites it would suggest that usage would be on average between £3 and £6 a day which could be the possible reduction one should expect in site fees if meters were installed?

David

Posted on 29/11/2022 18:07

The user and all related content has been Deleted User

Takethedogalong replied on 29/11/2022 18:19

Posted on 29/11/2022 18:19

Small businesses have seen astronomical rises for energy. I have a hairdresser chum, and he was telling me his bill had quadrupled over a month, but with the same average of customers. Needless to say, he negotiated a new business package very quickly. So it probably has quite a bearing on prices on a CL.

replied on 29/11/2022 18:32

Posted on 29/11/2022 18:19 by Takethedogalong

Small businesses have seen astronomical rises for energy. I have a hairdresser chum, and he was telling me his bill had quadrupled over a month, but with the same average of customers. Needless to say, he negotiated a new business package very quickly. So it probably has quite a bearing on prices on a CL.

Posted on 29/11/2022 18:32

The user and all related content has been Deleted User

brue replied on 29/11/2022 18:42

Posted on 29/11/2022 18:42

Apologies haven't read all the posts but the club says it will trial metering on a small scale on a site (or sites?) Don't know exactly what this means but it's in the replies to AGM questions about energy use.

Cofton Park in Devon are using it on a section of their large site, see their web site for details.

We've found it works well on  CLs, meters can be  basic or advanced. Depends on circumstances.

JVB66 replied on 29/11/2022 19:18

Posted on 29/11/2022 18:32 by

I have heard that comment in various forms many times but nobody has told me the uni price they are actually paying. I'm sure many have genuinely seen big increases but some are just using the theme to jack up their profits.

Posted on 29/11/2022 19:18

 OHs hairdressers just up the road when we went was almost at the stage of closing up shop as she says many of her clients are pensioners and at the moment. her electricity contract is manageable but it is up for renewal in Feb next year ,and what she has been told it will almost double ,as she says it is going to be impossible to keep prices at present levels which could mean at least a 25per cent increase in her prices ,which many pensioners would not be able to pay

Her lease is with the LA which is also up for renewal next June her premises are not well insulated,that the LA are not willing to help with the cost to double glaze the windows which the cheapest estimate for the work is £25,000 she has had in the last five years had an insulated ceiling installed but cannot do the windows without help from the landlord

Hja replied on 29/11/2022 20:00

Posted on 29/11/2022 18:32 by

I have heard that comment in various forms many times but nobody has told me the uni price they are actually paying. I'm sure many have genuinely seen big increases but some are just using the theme to jack up their profits.

Posted on 29/11/2022 20:00

Somewhere, on this forum maybe, I have seen a comment of commercial prices being in excess of £1 a unit.

Hja replied on 29/11/2022 20:02

Posted on 29/11/2022 17:25 by DavidKlyne

We are also with Octopus and they do provide and abundance of information. I was surprised we used more electricity in August than we have currently in November! We do have Smart Meters so I assume that allows them to break-down usage quite minutely?

I may have posted this elsewhere but it might be useful to add here as well. A CL owner recently posted on Facebook about their experience of changing to metering. They obviously have a bit of a hybrid system as they include 10 KwH usage in the daily price of the CL which I feel is quite generous? The Owner has been monitoring it since its introduction and (I think) was surprised to find nobody going over the 10 KwH limit. Some were considerably below that figure, others closer. If that turns out to be the general experience over a long period then perhaps there was no advantage in putting meters in? Now it could be that those using the CL were perhaps a bit more careful in their energy use because it was a CL? Translating to Club sites it would suggest that usage would be on average between £3 and £6 a day which could be the possible reduction one should expect in site fees if meters were installed?

David

Posted on 29/11/2022 20:02

I guess energy consumption is going to depend on time of year. If vans are needing heating and electric options are used, then that could increase usage considerably.

replied on 29/11/2022 20:45

Posted on 29/11/2022 20:00 by Hja

Somewhere, on this forum maybe, I have seen a comment of commercial prices being in excess of £1 a unit.

Posted on 29/11/2022 20:45

The user and all related content has been Deleted User
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