Is EHU metering a good investment?

GEandGJE replied on 28/11/2022 17:23

Posted on 28/11/2022 17:23

I was going to post this in the thread that has been Deleted User as a number of folk were saying that EHU Metering would make pitch prices cheaper, so Let's play the You Said, We Listened and Implemented game. This is my view based on my experience as an IT Infrastructure Project Manager and in IT Procurement.  To satisfy the We don't want EHU and want cheaper pitch prices group of people, the We only want to pay for the electricity we use group of people and the I'll pay whatever as I'm on holiday group of people, the clubs only option is to move to metered usage. How does the club do that and what investment would be needed. Lets estimate that the club has over 10,000 pitches with an average of 2 hookups per bollard that's 5,000 bollards that will need to be modified and/or replaced and some of those will need groundwork undertaken for new cabling etc, it will require  putting all pitches out of action and subsequent loss of income whilst the work takes place. This can't all be done at once and I think that a 5 year rollout period would be a stretch and it would take a dedicated team at HQ to manage. They would need to procure equipment, electrical installation teams, groundwork teams, IT systems and software to operate the metering and payments, negotiate contracts with all the power companies who supply the club sites and negotiate with any land owners. I don't think you would get much change from a £5 million investment of the clubs (our) money. Issues that the club would need to consider 1) leased sites where the land owner doesn't give permission for the work to be carried out or the lease will soon come to an end 2) the price per kW from each of the power suppliers will vary depending on contract length and renewal dates, so do they average that price out across all sites or do you have different EHU costs in different areas of the network 3) do you factor the suppliers standing charge into the  metered cost,  4) the club would need to move to a credit card only payment system where the payment for EUH used is automatically deducted at the end of your stay 5) a central dispute resolution team, as there will always be people who will challenge the bill and that shouldn't be the on site teams and finally the biggest question for the club, 6) what return on investment will the club get. I doubt very much that the savings made from the electricity used would come close to the investment needed therefore the remaining investment would need to come from reserves and most likely recouped from increased pitch prices. Lastly this would give the club a very inconsistent offering with not all sites offering metered EUH, the cost of EHU could vary from site to site and an even bigger price variance across the network. Not a very good Business Case in my view, in terms of both investment and inconvenience to the membership so I can't see it happening I'm afraid.

Amesford replied on 30/11/2022 11:02

Posted on 30/11/2022 11:02

Should be fun if they do introduce it looking at the mess, they made of the new booking system 

young thomas replied on 30/11/2022 11:04

Posted on 30/11/2022 11:04

I've regularly use a metering system that allows the reading on the pitch and is also mirrored in the site office system. 

this should give customers a fair idea of their ongoing usage and avoid too many shocks.

It's also easy to see how you're doing where sites give a daily inclusive amount.

settling the bill is dead easy, a wander to the office just prior to leaving and tap your card. You normally get a couple of hours 'grace' with the supply. 

agreed it might be even simpler to be able to do it on an app provided it can be done within a reasonable time of the customer disconnecting. This would get over any issues with office staffing levels.

these things might need a bit of tech to drive them but they don't need to have over complicated processes from the customer end.

After all isn't the idea of all this to match fees to usage and to make doing this as easy as possible?

if we can't trust members to make use of a system that's based on honesty, then we need a watertight system but one that's simple to use and manage.

peedee replied on 30/11/2022 11:08

Posted on 30/11/2022 11:08

Is metering a good investment?  Some sites obviously think so and it is thought more and more sites are considering the option.  The Club obviously has thought otherwise for the past 20 years but does acknowledge that it would b be fairer.  Not only would it be a fairer way to charge it would also help them control their pitch costs because it would pass the uncertainty of the volatility of energy costs directly onto the customer.

The costs of metering all of the Clubs pitches of £5 million is rather a wild guess. I think the order of £3 million is more accurate given that the Club has of the order of 15,800 pitches and the British Holiday & Home Parks Association put the cost at £200 per pitch some years ago. Costs of meters have fallen since, but labour costs have probably risen so I would estimate it remains close to the £200 mark and probably cheaper with the buying clout the Club would have for so many pitches. I have no idea why the OP thinks there would be any ground works to carry out although it may be necessary to fit new bollards if the meters could not be installed in the old ones. What ever the cost the Club can recover this over the life of the meters which, if approved ones, are guaranteed accurate for 20 years. £200 spread over 20 years would result in a very small increase in per pitch cost.  

It would be nice to know more about the Club’s planned trial. I suspect the Clubs preferred supplier would be CPES and their >RFID card reader meters<, a tried and tested technology rather than anything too fancy which could be standard across the site network. There could be many ways of installing these, for instance just a few pitches at a time without closing the whole site, during site refurbishment or closure during the off season.

peedee

Navigateur replied on 30/11/2022 11:32

Posted on 30/11/2022 11:32

There could be many ways of installing these, for instance just a few pitches at a time without closing the whole site, during site refurbishment or closure during the off season.

Or combined with the annual testing of the bollard outlets.

JVB66 replied on 30/11/2022 11:44

Posted on 30/11/2022 11:08 by peedee

Is metering a good investment?  Some sites obviously think so and it is thought more and more sites are considering the option.  The Club obviously has thought otherwise for the past 20 years but does acknowledge that it would b be fairer.  Not only would it be a fairer way to charge it would also help them control their pitch costs because it would pass the uncertainty of the volatility of energy costs directly onto the customer.

The costs of metering all of the Clubs pitches of £5 million is rather a wild guess. I think the order of £3 million is more accurate given that the Club has of the order of 15,800 pitches and the British Holiday & Home Parks Association put the cost at £200 per pitch some years ago. Costs of meters have fallen since, but labour costs have probably risen so I would estimate it remains close to the £200 mark and probably cheaper with the buying clout the Club would have for so many pitches. I have no idea why the OP thinks there would be any ground works to carry out although it may be necessary to fit new bollards if the meters could not be installed in the old ones. What ever the cost the Club can recover this over the life of the meters which, if approved ones, are guaranteed accurate for 20 years. £200 spread over 20 years would result in a very small increase in per pitch cost.  

It would be nice to know more about the Club’s planned trial. I suspect the Clubs preferred supplier would be CPES and their >RFID card reader meters<, a tried and tested technology rather than anything too fancy which could be standard across the site network. There could be many ways of installing these, for instance just a few pitches at a time without closing the whole site, during site refurbishment or closure during the off season.

peedee

Posted on 30/11/2022 11:44

I understand the "trial" that is to be carried out on a couple of sites may be via a prepaid card but if and it seems now quite urgent? It will be via an app on smart phones if rolled out on sites that have enough time left on the leases. or on the few sites actually owned by this club

As the CPES electricians advised it is not that simple to make a site suitable to have meters fitted 

Oscarmax replied on 30/11/2022 11:45

Posted on 30/11/2022 11:45

I have an Octopus Electroverse App and card simple insert your card on the EV charger, it then takes payment from your electric account, it is open to non-Octopus Energy accounts, not sure how they collect payment.

I also have an EVCharge card you preload your card online, insert your card at the end of your stay re-insert your card to stop, it takes care of all the varying charging rates, it could not be simpler even for a numpty like me.

Surely there is or could be design a suitable bollard?

Cornersteady replied on 30/11/2022 11:53

Posted on 30/11/2022 11:53

Perhaps investment is the wrong word. An investment to me anyway is using some money or perhaps something else like time to get something back, usually more money or some advantage? Or some positive return anyway?

What return would the club get from 'investing' the £3m plus? 

Firstly it would have to find the money either through loans which it would have to pay back with money from where? It can't make any from the use of these meters?

Or use its reserves in which case new sites, refurbishment that might actually bring in money or stop a loss to other providers won't get done?

Either way money has to found that can't be recouped apart from higher pitch prices perhaps? I don't know?

How about someone starting a fund from donations from members? That would really show what support there is? Or what about a club style tourist tax for those staying on club sites? Fair as it won't affect those who are club members but don't use club sites , or maybe just an increase in the membership fee, after their are posters who say they want metering yet they're the ones who say they don't use club sites so again that will show the real level of support. Some of these are tongue in cheek or maybe not.

There if course the is 'green' return but again would metering really have that much effect, not for me I'll pay to enjoy my time away but won't speak for others.

The non EHU option would work would the club want that? It's been said before that the club might be making money by the current way (pun intended) quite legally by the all inclusive price.

The club will decide hopefully based on some financial basis, no doubt some will post about the club wouldn't know how to do that and yes perhaps, but a lot of people still keep booking sites.

peedee replied on 30/11/2022 11:58

Posted on 30/11/2022 11:58

As the CPES electricians advised it is not that simple to make a site suitable to have meters fitted 

What do they see as not that simple?

peedee

Oscarmax replied on 30/11/2022 11:59

Posted on 30/11/2022 11:59

Found this on Caravan Park Electrical Service Ltd site, it looks identical to the bollards on the CMC site.

Europa 2-Way Alpha RFID metered bollard

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