Is EHU metering a good investment?

GEandGJE replied on 28/11/2022 17:23

Posted on 28/11/2022 17:23

I was going to post this in the thread that has been Deleted User as a number of folk were saying that EHU Metering would make pitch prices cheaper, so Let's play the You Said, We Listened and Implemented game. This is my view based on my experience as an IT Infrastructure Project Manager and in IT Procurement.  To satisfy the We don't want EHU and want cheaper pitch prices group of people, the We only want to pay for the electricity we use group of people and the I'll pay whatever as I'm on holiday group of people, the clubs only option is to move to metered usage. How does the club do that and what investment would be needed. Lets estimate that the club has over 10,000 pitches with an average of 2 hookups per bollard that's 5,000 bollards that will need to be modified and/or replaced and some of those will need groundwork undertaken for new cabling etc, it will require  putting all pitches out of action and subsequent loss of income whilst the work takes place. This can't all be done at once and I think that a 5 year rollout period would be a stretch and it would take a dedicated team at HQ to manage. They would need to procure equipment, electrical installation teams, groundwork teams, IT systems and software to operate the metering and payments, negotiate contracts with all the power companies who supply the club sites and negotiate with any land owners. I don't think you would get much change from a £5 million investment of the clubs (our) money. Issues that the club would need to consider 1) leased sites where the land owner doesn't give permission for the work to be carried out or the lease will soon come to an end 2) the price per kW from each of the power suppliers will vary depending on contract length and renewal dates, so do they average that price out across all sites or do you have different EHU costs in different areas of the network 3) do you factor the suppliers standing charge into the  metered cost,  4) the club would need to move to a credit card only payment system where the payment for EUH used is automatically deducted at the end of your stay 5) a central dispute resolution team, as there will always be people who will challenge the bill and that shouldn't be the on site teams and finally the biggest question for the club, 6) what return on investment will the club get. I doubt very much that the savings made from the electricity used would come close to the investment needed therefore the remaining investment would need to come from reserves and most likely recouped from increased pitch prices. Lastly this would give the club a very inconsistent offering with not all sites offering metered EUH, the cost of EHU could vary from site to site and an even bigger price variance across the network. Not a very good Business Case in my view, in terms of both investment and inconvenience to the membership so I can't see it happening I'm afraid.

replied on 29/11/2022 13:40

Posted on 29/11/2022 10:59 by

Has there been a 2 kw version Steve?

I ask because I had a Lunar  with Aldi heating 7 years and never found it a problem but do confess I dont seek out cold places and didnt use it a lot.

Posted on 29/11/2022 13:40

The user and all related content has been Deleted User

young thomas replied on 29/11/2022 13:44

Posted on 29/11/2022 13:44

"I wonder why many European sites use either different ampage or metering etc but uk sites have until recently just stuck with 16amp and no meters."

Almost exclusively, continental  and for the home market have gas only hobs and Truma come is with no electric heating, this being an option of around £500.

I know a guy who buys his vans overseas and never has the option. His view is that £500 would buy him a lifetime's use of refillable gas which works far better anyway than electric.

he also doesn't have to pay for metered electric.

 

DavidKlyne replied on 29/11/2022 13:55

Posted on 29/11/2022 13:55

My only experience of metering whilst camping has been in Europe, mainly in Germany. I didn't find it particularly convenient as often you were waiting around on the day of departure to be released from the hook up box and then a trip to reception, although the latter would have to be made as you nearly always pay on leaving a site. I would also add that we have paid between 50 and 80 euro cents per unit which given it was several years ago that is extremely expensive compared to what we would have paid in the UK where we have a law (as previously mentioned) that prevent campsites charging more than they pay for electricity. 

Whether the Club move to metering will, I expect, depend on what the view of electricity prices will be in the medium to longer term. With more nuclear coming on stream, albeit in years to come, more offshore wind (and perhaps onshore?) plus solar generated energy the UK will eventually be nearly self sufficient with a much reduced need for electricity to be produced by fossil fuels. That self sufficiency should mean much cheaper electricity as we can control our own costs rather than being subject to world markets. How long that takes to become fact will influence whether it is worth the Club going full out for metering.

Perhaps that nagging doubt about electricity prices and how far away cheaper electricity is will force the Club to take action, sooner rather than later? If the Club do decide to proceed with metering I hope they think about the method carefully. Ideally for me it would be a system that could operate independently of site reception. So that means either a prepaid card which can be topped up at a machine on the outside of reception or a Smart App on my phone. It will be interesting to see what the Club decide. As to installation. The Club seems to regularly upgrade several sites a years and these sites are usually closed during the upgrade. Wouldn't that be the ideal opportunity to start installing meters on these sites rather than disrupt sites which are open?

David

Navigateur replied on 29/11/2022 13:57

Posted on 29/11/2022 13:57

 we will never use 15kW per day so we should get a big refund. At home, using washing machines, tumble dryers, electric ovens etc etc we barely use 8 kW per day 

Seems a bit of confusion creeping in here.  A "kW" ( a kilo-watt, 1000 watts ) is a measure of consumption at an instant in time.   Keep it up for an hour and one has a kWH ( a kilo-watt for an hour ), keep it going for a day and one has 24 kWH.  Or if one had 24 kW for an hour one would also have 24 kWH.

So 15kWH in a day is quite feasable as perhaps 15 kW for just one hour, or perhaps instead 0.625kW for 24 hours.

replied on 29/11/2022 14:09

Posted on 29/11/2022 13:44 by young thomas

"I wonder why many European sites use either different ampage or metering etc but uk sites have until recently just stuck with 16amp and no meters."

Almost exclusively, continental  and for the home market have gas only hobs and Truma come is with no electric heating, this being an option of around £500.

I know a guy who buys his vans overseas and never has the option. His view is that £500 would buy him a lifetime's use of refillable gas which works far better anyway than electric.

he also doesn't have to pay for metered electric.

 

Posted on 29/11/2022 14:09

The user and all related content has been Deleted User

replied on 29/11/2022 14:11

Posted on 29/11/2022 13:44 by young thomas

"I wonder why many European sites use either different ampage or metering etc but uk sites have until recently just stuck with 16amp and no meters."

Almost exclusively, continental  and for the home market have gas only hobs and Truma come is with no electric heating, this being an option of around £500.

I know a guy who buys his vans overseas and never has the option. His view is that £500 would buy him a lifetime's use of refillable gas which works far better anyway than electric.

he also doesn't have to pay for metered electric.

 

Posted on 29/11/2022 14:11

The user and all related content has been Deleted User

JohnM20 replied on 29/11/2022 14:13

Posted on 29/11/2022 13:57 by Navigateur

 we will never use 15kW per day so we should get a big refund. At home, using washing machines, tumble dryers, electric ovens etc etc we barely use 8 kW per day 

Seems a bit of confusion creeping in here.  A "kW" ( a kilo-watt, 1000 watts ) is a measure of consumption at an instant in time.   Keep it up for an hour and one has a kWH ( a kilo-watt for an hour ), keep it going for a day and one has 24 kWH.  Or if one had 24 kW for an hour one would also have 24 kWH.

So 15kWH in a day is quite feasable as perhaps 15 kW for just one hour, or perhaps instead 0.625kW for 24 hours.

Posted on 29/11/2022 14:13

So I just omitted to write the h after kW. Yes it does make a difference I grant you. The question is what in a caravan is on for 24 hours per day that is using a minimum of 1 kWh constantly? Certainly our water heater isn't on continuously, far from it. At worst, 6 kW per day using the 2kW setting (which we rarely do). The only possible constant is the fridge  which is 125W so 3 kW per day. 

replied on 29/11/2022 14:38

Posted on 29/11/2022 14:38

The user and all related content has been Deleted User

replied on 29/11/2022 14:58

Posted on 29/11/2022 14:58

The user and all related content has been Deleted User

young thomas replied on 29/11/2022 15:53

Posted on 29/11/2022 14:09 by

But don't forget YT that LHB is proud to be a FLT.  Only joking of course, but the continentals do tend to live outdoors more than UK campers and generally both bottled and pumped LPG is cheaper "over there".

Posted on 29/11/2022 15:53

He certainly is😉

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