Is EHU metering a good investment?

GEandGJE replied on 28/11/2022 17:23

Posted on 28/11/2022 17:23

I was going to post this in the thread that has been Deleted User as a number of folk were saying that EHU Metering would make pitch prices cheaper, so Let's play the You Said, We Listened and Implemented game. This is my view based on my experience as an IT Infrastructure Project Manager and in IT Procurement.  To satisfy the We don't want EHU and want cheaper pitch prices group of people, the We only want to pay for the electricity we use group of people and the I'll pay whatever as I'm on holiday group of people, the clubs only option is to move to metered usage. How does the club do that and what investment would be needed. Lets estimate that the club has over 10,000 pitches with an average of 2 hookups per bollard that's 5,000 bollards that will need to be modified and/or replaced and some of those will need groundwork undertaken for new cabling etc, it will require  putting all pitches out of action and subsequent loss of income whilst the work takes place. This can't all be done at once and I think that a 5 year rollout period would be a stretch and it would take a dedicated team at HQ to manage. They would need to procure equipment, electrical installation teams, groundwork teams, IT systems and software to operate the metering and payments, negotiate contracts with all the power companies who supply the club sites and negotiate with any land owners. I don't think you would get much change from a £5 million investment of the clubs (our) money. Issues that the club would need to consider 1) leased sites where the land owner doesn't give permission for the work to be carried out or the lease will soon come to an end 2) the price per kW from each of the power suppliers will vary depending on contract length and renewal dates, so do they average that price out across all sites or do you have different EHU costs in different areas of the network 3) do you factor the suppliers standing charge into the  metered cost,  4) the club would need to move to a credit card only payment system where the payment for EUH used is automatically deducted at the end of your stay 5) a central dispute resolution team, as there will always be people who will challenge the bill and that shouldn't be the on site teams and finally the biggest question for the club, 6) what return on investment will the club get. I doubt very much that the savings made from the electricity used would come close to the investment needed therefore the remaining investment would need to come from reserves and most likely recouped from increased pitch prices. Lastly this would give the club a very inconsistent offering with not all sites offering metered EUH, the cost of EHU could vary from site to site and an even bigger price variance across the network. Not a very good Business Case in my view, in terms of both investment and inconvenience to the membership so I can't see it happening I'm afraid.

peedee replied on 16/01/2023 08:43

Posted on 15/01/2023 16:51 by Cornersteady

Well I think it was you who quoted a certain sum per pitch to install meters and then the overall cost across the network was a few million, wasn't it? 

Do you know how much a site costs to buy and/or refurb? Even it's the same or more as a club user (you have said you're going to use club sites less and less and perhaps none I recall?) I would personally spend the money on new sites and refurbishments which will at least enable the costs to be recouped unlike meters and the 'evidence' appears to shows it what those actually using club sites really want.

... are certainly not going to cut back on electricity usage while it remains unmetered

Even with meters why would I want to cut back on my electricity usage? I don't at home and when I'm on holiday that is will be the last thing I will do. I won't abuse but I will use whatever electricity I need to enjoy myself, meters or not. And if you think sites prices will go down at all or even significantly with meters then as others have posted before you might be wrong as even you appear to admit:

I also think sites can charge for electricity supply infrastucture including meters to recover the capital cost over the anticipated life time of the equipment.

But then if you're not using club sites? 

Posted on 16/01/2023 08:43

I did indeed quote sums but it was per pitch and of course if the Club were to go ahead and install meters, cost would depend on the phasing of work and the numbers of pitches to be converted. I agree it would not be cheap but then neither was rebranding and that didn't produce any great benefit for members.

I don't see what my usage of Club sites has to do with the issue at all other than perhaps if the Club offered more choice instead of one size fits all, I might make more use of them.

I am not saying you would cut back CS, that is your choice, but at least others who would want that choice, could.

Pitch prices with metering might not drop as much as I would like but at least they should drop. (they have at other sites) and members become responsible for their own energy consumption not the Club much the same as at home.

peedee

Cornersteady replied on 16/01/2023 10:29

Posted on 16/01/2023 08:43 by peedee

I did indeed quote sums but it was per pitch and of course if the Club were to go ahead and install meters, cost would depend on the phasing of work and the numbers of pitches to be converted. I agree it would not be cheap but then neither was rebranding and that didn't produce any great benefit for members.

I don't see what my usage of Club sites has to do with the issue at all other than perhaps if the Club offered more choice instead of one size fits all, I might make more use of them.

I am not saying you would cut back CS, that is your choice, but at least others who would want that choice, could.

Pitch prices with metering might not drop as much as I would like but at least they should drop. (they have at other sites) and members become responsible for their own energy consumption not the Club much the same as at home.

peedee

Posted on 16/01/2023 10:29

and that didn't produce any great benefit for members.

Except that it did recruit (how many hundreds of thousands?) more MH owing members? That extra income will surely have benefited all?

As to your usage, I have no idea except you said you didn't like paying for the facilities block that you don't use and it was based on that I recall? but others have stated that even if the EHU 'price' was taken off they still wouldn't use club sites as they would still be 'overpriced'?. 

Have they dropped at other sites? If so by how much?

But again why not let those that are going to use club sites make the decisions? I would welcome a survey based on those that actually do? 

Cornersteady replied on 16/01/2023 10:55

Posted on 16/01/2023 10:49 by peedee

Have they dropped at other sites? If so by how much?

£6 to £7 per night

peedee

Posted on 16/01/2023 10:55

Ok thanks PD, and yes even with those prices people have said they still wouldn't use club sites.

peedee replied on 16/01/2023 13:27

Posted on 16/01/2023 10:55 by Cornersteady

Ok thanks PD, and yes even with those prices people have said they still wouldn't use club sites.

Posted on 16/01/2023 13:27

As you often say, its their choice.

peedee

brue replied on 20/01/2023 17:22

Posted on 20/01/2023 17:22

People might be interested to read a recent Trust Pilot response from CAMC which yet again stated that the club hopes to introduce pay as you go for electricity on sites. See today's reviews and replies 20/01/23. It would be more interesting to see this statement enlarged on the club web site for all members to read.

Cornersteady replied on 20/01/2023 17:42

Posted on 20/01/2023 17:22 by brue

People might be interested to read a recent Trust Pilot response from CAMC which yet again stated that the club hopes to introduce pay as you go for electricity on sites. See today's reviews and replies 20/01/23. It would be more interesting to see this statement enlarged on the club web site for all members to read.

Posted on 20/01/2023 17:42

I like the word hopes. It can mean so many things!

I hope to win the lottery, well more than £176 which is the limit so far!

But a better statement, in terms of being clear, would be to actually say they were going to?

Wherenext replied on 20/01/2023 17:47

Posted on 20/01/2023 17:47

We are currently looking at methods that could be used to provide a pay for use service relating to energy and hope to be able to trial this later on this year.

The salient part of the response given by the club to which you refer to Brue.

I thought their mention of using Economy pitches a bit rich considering they are usually situated in the rump end of a site.

Cornersteady replied on 20/01/2023 17:58

Posted on 20/01/2023 17:58

This is nothing new, wasn't there a similar response in the AGM? It has been mentioned before.

If the club was really serious it would be putting them in at SQ where a brand new installation is being done from scratch, or least put them in now and don't use the metering part?

replied on 20/01/2023 17:59

Posted on 20/01/2023 17:42 by Cornersteady

I like the word hopes. It can mean so many things!

I hope to win the lottery, well more than £176 which is the limit so far!

But a better statement, in terms of being clear, would be to actually say they were going to?

Posted on 20/01/2023 17:59

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