Is EHU metering a good investment?

GEandGJE replied on 28/11/2022 17:23

Posted on 28/11/2022 17:23

I was going to post this in the thread that has been Deleted User as a number of folk were saying that EHU Metering would make pitch prices cheaper, so Let's play the You Said, We Listened and Implemented game. This is my view based on my experience as an IT Infrastructure Project Manager and in IT Procurement.  To satisfy the We don't want EHU and want cheaper pitch prices group of people, the We only want to pay for the electricity we use group of people and the I'll pay whatever as I'm on holiday group of people, the clubs only option is to move to metered usage. How does the club do that and what investment would be needed. Lets estimate that the club has over 10,000 pitches with an average of 2 hookups per bollard that's 5,000 bollards that will need to be modified and/or replaced and some of those will need groundwork undertaken for new cabling etc, it will require  putting all pitches out of action and subsequent loss of income whilst the work takes place. This can't all be done at once and I think that a 5 year rollout period would be a stretch and it would take a dedicated team at HQ to manage. They would need to procure equipment, electrical installation teams, groundwork teams, IT systems and software to operate the metering and payments, negotiate contracts with all the power companies who supply the club sites and negotiate with any land owners. I don't think you would get much change from a £5 million investment of the clubs (our) money. Issues that the club would need to consider 1) leased sites where the land owner doesn't give permission for the work to be carried out or the lease will soon come to an end 2) the price per kW from each of the power suppliers will vary depending on contract length and renewal dates, so do they average that price out across all sites or do you have different EHU costs in different areas of the network 3) do you factor the suppliers standing charge into the  metered cost,  4) the club would need to move to a credit card only payment system where the payment for EUH used is automatically deducted at the end of your stay 5) a central dispute resolution team, as there will always be people who will challenge the bill and that shouldn't be the on site teams and finally the biggest question for the club, 6) what return on investment will the club get. I doubt very much that the savings made from the electricity used would come close to the investment needed therefore the remaining investment would need to come from reserves and most likely recouped from increased pitch prices. Lastly this would give the club a very inconsistent offering with not all sites offering metered EUH, the cost of EHU could vary from site to site and an even bigger price variance across the network. Not a very good Business Case in my view, in terms of both investment and inconvenience to the membership so I can't see it happening I'm afraid.

Cornersteady replied on 13/01/2023 13:56

Posted on 13/01/2023 13:38 by peedee

I've also heard caravanners saying 'if I have to pay that I'll use all the electric I can, leave the heating and water heater on all day,

There is a school of thought which I subscribe to, that this can be cheaper than reheating the space and water once cold as long as it is thermostatically controlled. At home my space and water heating is never turned off when home. Space heating is controlled by my smart thermostat which just turns it down according to our settings but it is never off even when away and even in summer. I can also control this remotely. The only time the hot water is turned off is when not required i.e. when we go away.

peedee

Posted on 13/01/2023 13:56

Same for me at home and in my caravan if needed, and that's not the same as I'll use all the electric I can, it's using the electricity I need to enjoy my holiday. I refuse to come back to a cold caravan in winter after a day out.

Tammygirl replied on 13/01/2023 16:29

Posted on 13/01/2023 11:33 by Tinwheeler

TG, I don't think the metered cost could be averaged across the site network as that would inevitably mean some sites charging more than they paid for it and put the club in breach of the secondary supplier regs. Effectively, averaging the cost is what camc already does by including it in the site fees but without the advantage/disadvantage of only paying for what you use.

Electricity costs vary across the country as well as between power companies. For instance, electricity costs in the SW are higher than in many other areas.

Posted on 13/01/2023 16:29

Why have different suppliers, why not just have 1 supplier for the whole network. If it was just 1 supplier then the club could negotiate a rate for all the sites. Then the cost could be averaged out across the network the only difference would be the standing charge.

Standing charge,  like the SW we are amongst the highest in the UK as we are classed as remote, we are all of 7 miles from the SSEs headquarters, I could understand it if we were highland Perthshire but we are not.

 

Tinwheeler replied on 13/01/2023 17:41

Posted on 13/01/2023 16:29 by Tammygirl

Why have different suppliers, why not just have 1 supplier for the whole network. If it was just 1 supplier then the club could negotiate a rate for all the sites. Then the cost could be averaged out across the network the only difference would be the standing charge.

Standing charge,  like the SW we are amongst the highest in the UK as we are classed as remote, we are all of 7 miles from the SSEs headquarters, I could understand it if we were highland Perthshire but we are not.

 

Posted on 13/01/2023 17:41

"Why have different suppliers" is not a question I can answer nor, I suspect, can anyone else here. Best ask the energy suppliers or CAMC, TG👍🏻

Tammygirl replied on 13/01/2023 20:49

Posted on 13/01/2023 17:41 by Tinwheeler

"Why have different suppliers" is not a question I can answer nor, I suspect, can anyone else here. Best ask the energy suppliers or CAMC, TG👍🏻

Posted on 13/01/2023 20:49

Not asking you to Tinny, just suggesting there may be other ways of procuring electricity. It's something the club should be doing if they are not already doing it. smile

Tinwheeler replied on 13/01/2023 21:16

Posted on 13/01/2023 20:49 by Tammygirl

Not asking you to Tinny, just suggesting there may be other ways of procuring electricity. It's something the club should be doing if they are not already doing it. smile

Posted on 13/01/2023 21:16

Ah, right. It sure read like a question addressed to me. Again, it’s something to ask CAMC - perhaps it’s one for the next AGM. 🤔

replied on 13/01/2023 21:39

Posted on 13/01/2023 21:39

Content has been removed.

eribaMotters replied on 14/01/2023 20:42

Posted on 14/01/2023 20:42

A couple of points.

Why not one supplier? - If you do a search for cheapest supplier I know pre-Ukraine conflict the results were very postcode specific. When we lived in Formby, my mothers cheapest supplier in Southport, about 8 miles away, would have been one of our most expensive.

Something deep in my grey matter tells me it was/is illegal to sell on electricity. This would appear to no longer be the case. 

I must admit though, that the idea of charging for electricity used to me seems very fair. 

 

Colin

CaravanRamblings replied on 15/01/2023 09:32

Posted on 15/01/2023 09:32

Once electricity is metered there is a complete change of mindset over it's use. Spanish sites are predominantly metered and the one we are on charges 0.55 Euros per kWh (unit). Although there is also an option to prepay for 150 units a month at a lower price.

People use energy much more "considered". Gas is often used for heating. (LPG works out around 0.15 Euros per unit). 

You start to learn what you use to make the best decision. So I know our under-counter Dometic fridge uses 4 units per day; background usage is 1 unit per day.  Heating the awning costs 1.5 units  per hour; heating the van for 2 hours morning and 3 in the evening is 10 units; That's with nighttime temperatures above 10C and daytime around 18C; Imagine the usage in the UK with our temperatures.

Some commercial contracts in the UK have electricity at £1 a unit. It's not difficult to imagine a large van with full height fridge / freezer using £20 -  £30 of electricity a day.

Not being able to add a margin to pay for the infrastructure (Electricity regs) of meters is a huge problem but medium term I don't see there will be a choice.

Technology wise surely smart cards / phones loading money on and off the bollard is the way to go, not involving any payments and additional "touch-points" with the wardens.

 

peedee replied on 15/01/2023 10:21

Posted on 15/01/2023 10:21

Some commercial contracts in the UK have electricity at £1 a unit. It's not difficult to imagine a large van with full height fridge / freezer using £20 - £30 of electricity a day.

I think your usage is a bit of an exaggeration.  I have such a fridge in my motorhome and when I over wintered in Spain my consumption was 4Kwh per day running the fridge, battery charger and boiling the occasional kettle. Space and water heating was using gas.

I also think sites can charge for electricity supply infrastucture including meters to recover the capital cost over the anticipated life time of the equipment. It is only usage that profit is not allowed. Approved meters are usually guaranteed accurate for up to 20 years before it is recommended they are replaced.

peedee

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