Is EHU metering a good investment?

GEandGJE replied on 28/11/2022 17:23

Posted on 28/11/2022 17:23

I was going to post this in the thread that has been Deleted User as a number of folk were saying that EHU Metering would make pitch prices cheaper, so Let's play the You Said, We Listened and Implemented game. This is my view based on my experience as an IT Infrastructure Project Manager and in IT Procurement.  To satisfy the We don't want EHU and want cheaper pitch prices group of people, the We only want to pay for the electricity we use group of people and the I'll pay whatever as I'm on holiday group of people, the clubs only option is to move to metered usage. How does the club do that and what investment would be needed. Lets estimate that the club has over 10,000 pitches with an average of 2 hookups per bollard that's 5,000 bollards that will need to be modified and/or replaced and some of those will need groundwork undertaken for new cabling etc, it will require  putting all pitches out of action and subsequent loss of income whilst the work takes place. This can't all be done at once and I think that a 5 year rollout period would be a stretch and it would take a dedicated team at HQ to manage. They would need to procure equipment, electrical installation teams, groundwork teams, IT systems and software to operate the metering and payments, negotiate contracts with all the power companies who supply the club sites and negotiate with any land owners. I don't think you would get much change from a £5 million investment of the clubs (our) money. Issues that the club would need to consider 1) leased sites where the land owner doesn't give permission for the work to be carried out or the lease will soon come to an end 2) the price per kW from each of the power suppliers will vary depending on contract length and renewal dates, so do they average that price out across all sites or do you have different EHU costs in different areas of the network 3) do you factor the suppliers standing charge into the  metered cost,  4) the club would need to move to a credit card only payment system where the payment for EUH used is automatically deducted at the end of your stay 5) a central dispute resolution team, as there will always be people who will challenge the bill and that shouldn't be the on site teams and finally the biggest question for the club, 6) what return on investment will the club get. I doubt very much that the savings made from the electricity used would come close to the investment needed therefore the remaining investment would need to come from reserves and most likely recouped from increased pitch prices. Lastly this would give the club a very inconsistent offering with not all sites offering metered EUH, the cost of EHU could vary from site to site and an even bigger price variance across the network. Not a very good Business Case in my view, in terms of both investment and inconvenience to the membership so I can't see it happening I'm afraid.

Tinwheeler replied on 13/01/2023 11:33

Posted on 13/01/2023 11:33

TG, I don't think the metered cost could be averaged across the site network as that would inevitably mean some sites charging more than they paid for it and put the club in breach of the secondary supplier regs. Effectively, averaging the cost is what camc already does by including it in the site fees but without the advantage/disadvantage of only paying for what you use.

Electricity costs vary across the country as well as between power companies. For instance, electricity costs in the SW are higher than in many other areas.

ChocolateTrees replied on 13/01/2023 12:02

Posted on 13/01/2023 11:33 by Tinwheeler

TG, I don't think the metered cost could be averaged across the site network as that would inevitably mean some sites charging more than they paid for it and put the club in breach of the secondary supplier regs. Effectively, averaging the cost is what camc already does by including it in the site fees but without the advantage/disadvantage of only paying for what you use.

Electricity costs vary across the country as well as between power companies. For instance, electricity costs in the SW are higher than in many other areas.

Posted on 13/01/2023 12:02

TW, I think TG meant average the contract rate between sites, not the paid rate at the pitches. When selling on, you cant exceed the supplied paid rate. That could still be common on all sites with a single contract? 

eurortraveller replied on 13/01/2023 12:08

Posted on 13/01/2023 12:08

I don’t think site owners need be restricted by the price they can sell on electricity to visitors -  just look at the prices being  charged on motorways and public forecourts to charge electric vehicles. Some reports say it’s sometimes dearer than filling up with petrol.

Tinwheeler replied on 13/01/2023 12:10

Posted on 13/01/2023 12:02 by ChocolateTrees

TW, I think TG meant average the contract rate between sites, not the paid rate at the pitches. When selling on, you cant exceed the supplied paid rate. That could still be common on all sites with a single contract? 

Posted on 13/01/2023 12:10

Perhaps she did but it appeared to me to mean the resale rate which would indeed lead to a breach of the regs. 🤷‍♂️

Tinwheeler replied on 13/01/2023 12:14

Posted on 13/01/2023 12:08 by eurortraveller

I don’t think site owners need be restricted by the price they can sell on electricity to visitors -  just look at the prices being  charged on motorways and public forecourts to charge electric vehicles. Some reports say it’s sometimes dearer than filling up with petrol.

Posted on 13/01/2023 12:14

That's a different ball game, Euro, and something ChocT has explained previously.

Hja replied on 13/01/2023 12:15

Posted on 12/01/2023 12:43 by TwoJays

I get fed up with opening the magazine and constantly reading of 'upgrading' and 'refurbishing'. Granted I don't have to use the fancy sites but we are all paying for them in our fees. We are supposed to enjoy the get away from it all aspect of caravanning yet more sites are going all-electric, showers, glamping etc. Electricity is going up and any site refurb should include metered electric. We have just looked at booking a CL where the cost is now £7 a night above the listed price 'because of the electric'. That equates to £210 a month - I don't pay that for my gas/electric/water and house insurance combined at home when I'm using a washer, dishwasher etc so how can a site justify this? Nearly all the sites are now saying price 'from' which seems to give carte blanche to increase it. I've also heard caravanners saying 'if I have to pay that I'll use all the electric I can, leave the heating and water heater on all day, cook on electric etc to justify the cost' - -which will all lead to costs escalating again.

I know there are cost implications and other issues but if the Club 'lobby' is as powerful as our leaders would like us to believe perhaps they should use some of that influence and make metering happen.

We like to caravan year round and go off-grid when we can but sometimes we like to use electric. Those occasions will be far fewer this year and we are also looking at the CCC THS as an option for summer trips.

Posted on 13/01/2023 12:15

Agree with most of your post. The CL electricity charge will almost certainly be related to the commercial rate they pay which is higher than domestic rates. They are not allowed to charge other than the rate they are charged.

peedee replied on 13/01/2023 13:38

Posted on 13/01/2023 13:38

I've also heard caravanners saying 'if I have to pay that I'll use all the electric I can, leave the heating and water heater on all day,

There is a school of thought which I subscribe to, that this can be cheaper than reheating the space and water once cold as long as it is thermostatically controlled. At home my space and water heating is never turned off when home. Space heating is controlled by my smart thermostat which just turns it down according to our settings but it is never off even when away and even in summer. I can also control this remotely. The only time the hot water is turned off is when not required i.e. when we go away.

peedee

ChocolateTrees replied on 13/01/2023 13:43

Posted on 13/01/2023 12:10 by Tinwheeler

Perhaps she did but it appeared to me to mean the resale rate which would indeed lead to a breach of the regs. 🤷‍♂️

Posted on 13/01/2023 13:43

Agreed - a common resale rate with differing per site contract rates would lead to regs issues! 👍

ChocolateTrees replied on 13/01/2023 13:48

Posted on 13/01/2023 12:08 by eurortraveller

I don’t think site owners need be restricted by the price they can sell on electricity to visitors -  just look at the prices being  charged on motorways and public forecourts to charge electric vehicles. Some reports say it’s sometimes dearer than filling up with petrol.

Posted on 13/01/2023 13:48

As TW says, electric vehicle charging via a dedicated charging point (I.e. a Type 1, Type 2, CCS or ChaDaMo plug / socket, as opposed to 3 pin socket, or IEC309 connector) is not subject to the resale price cap. There is a whole document from OfGem dedicated to explaining different scenarios and what applies where. Its quite interesting if you are interested in that sort of thing. 

 

Taking Charge: selling electricity to Electric Vehicle drivers

Cornersteady replied on 13/01/2023 13:51

Posted on 13/01/2023 08:29 by peedee

Some may consider it worth it.

peedee

Posted on 13/01/2023 13:51

Indeed and if a business decides to do that then great. Let them do it.

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