Is EHU metering a good investment?

GEandGJE replied on 28/11/2022 17:23

Posted on 28/11/2022 17:23

I was going to post this in the thread that has been Deleted User as a number of folk were saying that EHU Metering would make pitch prices cheaper, so Let's play the You Said, We Listened and Implemented game. This is my view based on my experience as an IT Infrastructure Project Manager and in IT Procurement.  To satisfy the We don't want EHU and want cheaper pitch prices group of people, the We only want to pay for the electricity we use group of people and the I'll pay whatever as I'm on holiday group of people, the clubs only option is to move to metered usage. How does the club do that and what investment would be needed. Lets estimate that the club has over 10,000 pitches with an average of 2 hookups per bollard that's 5,000 bollards that will need to be modified and/or replaced and some of those will need groundwork undertaken for new cabling etc, it will require  putting all pitches out of action and subsequent loss of income whilst the work takes place. This can't all be done at once and I think that a 5 year rollout period would be a stretch and it would take a dedicated team at HQ to manage. They would need to procure equipment, electrical installation teams, groundwork teams, IT systems and software to operate the metering and payments, negotiate contracts with all the power companies who supply the club sites and negotiate with any land owners. I don't think you would get much change from a £5 million investment of the clubs (our) money. Issues that the club would need to consider 1) leased sites where the land owner doesn't give permission for the work to be carried out or the lease will soon come to an end 2) the price per kW from each of the power suppliers will vary depending on contract length and renewal dates, so do they average that price out across all sites or do you have different EHU costs in different areas of the network 3) do you factor the suppliers standing charge into the  metered cost,  4) the club would need to move to a credit card only payment system where the payment for EUH used is automatically deducted at the end of your stay 5) a central dispute resolution team, as there will always be people who will challenge the bill and that shouldn't be the on site teams and finally the biggest question for the club, 6) what return on investment will the club get. I doubt very much that the savings made from the electricity used would come close to the investment needed therefore the remaining investment would need to come from reserves and most likely recouped from increased pitch prices. Lastly this would give the club a very inconsistent offering with not all sites offering metered EUH, the cost of EHU could vary from site to site and an even bigger price variance across the network. Not a very good Business Case in my view, in terms of both investment and inconvenience to the membership so I can't see it happening I'm afraid.

Cornersteady replied on 05/12/2022 16:49

Posted on 05/12/2022 16:43 by mickysf

The short answer Corners is let both the club and us members do whatever we can to reduce waste/costs and hopefully we may just reduce those pitch fees. At least let’s try!

Posted on 05/12/2022 16:49

And we'll agree on that micky smile

SteveL replied on 05/12/2022 16:55

Posted on 05/12/2022 13:46 by

60p per kWh does seem to be a reasonable number for a commercial rate. So based upon an LV average usage of 5 kWh per day the metered cost of power would be £3 per day.  

With regard to your household usage 18 kWh plus is about double the UK average.  If that was our usage I would be wondering why and doing so serious investigation.  It's not unknown for meters to be wrong.

Posted on 05/12/2022 16:55

Just had a look at ours, Eon gives you a daily average for each month. In the colder months, last year and November of this year our average is 15 / 17 units a day. So not dissimilar to CT’s figure. We don’t heat water with electric as CT does, the solid fuel heating does that, but do run an oil filled radiator in an area not covered by the solid fuel. 

Rocky 2 buckets replied on 05/12/2022 17:05

Posted on 05/12/2022 15:38 by mickysf

Rocky, I have no issue with charitable acts where individuals are suffering and in need. I do object to paying for those who are not in that needy category and who are happy to take from the rest of us purely because they can and the current system is unable to stop them doing so.

Posted on 05/12/2022 17:05

I never meant it as a charitable act MSF🤷🏻‍♂️, I meant it as I won’t have a possessive outburst because someone wanted some warmth I may have invested in👍🏻. No one thinks ‘charitable’ when discussing tuggers or Moho owners surely?😂😂

replied on 05/12/2022 17:07

Posted on 05/12/2022 16:02 by JVB66

We try to avoid the eat all you want restraunt s as their prices tend reflect their advertising 

It is the buffet types where the serve you the meats and then you can help yourselves to vegetables,that the I have paid so I will make a pig of myself and then leave much of what they have put on their plate ,it was really notable when we used Searles at sunny hunny a few weeks ago

Even at the Breakfast Which was all buffet 

Posted on 05/12/2022 17:07

The user and all related content has been Deleted User

SteveL replied on 05/12/2022 17:08

Posted on 05/12/2022 16:48 by Cornersteady

Yes agree about the energy crisis but you were talking about, and I was replying to, the food banks and children going hungry which I have seen at first hand.

And sorry I do leave my caravan heating on during the day although sometimes reduced (I've posted this before) as I find nothing worse than coming back after a day out in winter and shivering away in my coat till the caravan warms up thinking I was warmer at the summits, I don't do that at home and certainty won't do that on holiday. I won't waste energy but I will use what I need to enjoy myself and that means coming back to a warm caravan.

We'll agree to differ, politely as always between us but to me a club site is no different to any other holiday accommodation where costs are averaged out by those staying.

 

Posted on 05/12/2022 17:08

And sorry I do leave my caravan heating on during the day although sometimes reduced (I've posted this before) as I find nothing worse than coming back after a day out in winter and shivering away in my coat till the caravan warms up

+1

mickysf replied on 05/12/2022 17:21

Posted on 05/12/2022 17:05 by Rocky 2 buckets

I never meant it as a charitable act MSF🤷🏻‍♂️, I meant it as I won’t have a possessive outburst because someone wanted some warmth I may have invested in👍🏻. No one thinks ‘charitable’ when discussing tuggers or Moho owners surely?😂😂

Posted on 05/12/2022 17:21

Even ‘royalty’ can be charitable.😉 Even us tuggers and mohomers can adopt a charitable attitude to life. Being of our fraternity is neither an excuse or a reason not to be, surely!

ChocolateTrees replied on 05/12/2022 17:39

Posted on 05/12/2022 16:10 by Cornersteady

I don't see the all different micky the price is advertised on club sites as well and based on the 'average' user too and I think this wasting campers to be a myth that we read about or vastly over-estimated. People use what they need on holiday and that's it. The average isn't fixed either if more people use energy it will go up or down of course if the other way

But again why target club sites with these questions? Why not all inclusive holidays? hotels? I was in a holiday cottage and the energy prices are included but do I care if others are using more than me? I just accept the price.

As to the other issues I don't think metering has any relevance to this or indeed to those of us who use any type of holiday site. If you want I can really tell you what I've come across this term in terms of real poverty.

Posted on 05/12/2022 17:39

Why is a pitch different to a hotel or holiday cottage? Valid question that comes down to two things. 1) the relative cost of the energy being provided as related to the rest of the service. 2) the relatively fixed nature of consumption for users of other type of facility. 

In a hotel or holiday let, the cost of heating, lighting, refrigeration, cooking and entertainment is built into the room or let, because the scale of use for the room or let is well established. In general, the power for those items is a small amount relative to the cost of the room or let. 

In a campsite, that is often not the case, especially if the location is "basic" with no toilet block or other facilities (think Borrowdale club site). Now the energy cost is both significant with respect to the pitch cost, and highly variable based on individual usage.  

Cornersteady replied on 05/12/2022 17:57

Posted on 05/12/2022 17:39 by ChocolateTrees

Why is a pitch different to a hotel or holiday cottage? Valid question that comes down to two things. 1) the relative cost of the energy being provided as related to the rest of the service. 2) the relatively fixed nature of consumption for users of other type of facility. 

In a hotel or holiday let, the cost of heating, lighting, refrigeration, cooking and entertainment is built into the room or let, because the scale of use for the room or let is well established. In general, the power for those items is a small amount relative to the cost of the room or let. 

In a campsite, that is often not the case, especially if the location is "basic" with no toilet block or other facilities (think Borrowdale club site). Now the energy cost is both significant with respect to the pitch cost, and highly variable based on individual usage.  

Posted on 05/12/2022 17:57

No as I see it.

The club has records of its energy usage going back decades I should imagine with all possible differing temperatures and knows exactly what a site like Borrowdale will use, or has used year on year as the numbers staying are fairly fixed and will know in advance, those numbers won't vary that much. Also with such large numbers of users, hundreds of thousands (?) over the network it will be a nice normal curve with no spikes and no large or small individual item will alter the average much if at all.

Also with such large numbers or data even from one site, the fluctuation around the mean, standard deviation, will be relatively small as SD goes down as sample sizes increase if I recall correctly 

Doesn't matter about the cost relative to the pitch cost as that could be true of any accommodation type.

But as always this is how the club operates either buy in or find sites with metering? 

brue replied on 05/12/2022 18:11

Posted on 05/12/2022 18:11

I presume you are aware Corners that CAMC have just put their prices up, again. They have stated they underestimated by 100% energy costs for this year, that's quite an underestimated amount! Therefore requests to reduce consumption eg not leaving heating on in a van when you are out are sensible requests to prevent further price hikes.

SteveL replied on 05/12/2022 18:26

Posted on 05/12/2022 18:11 by brue

I presume you are aware Corners that CAMC have just put their prices up, again. They have stated they underestimated by 100% energy costs for this year, that's quite an underestimated amount! Therefore requests to reduce consumption eg not leaving heating on in a van when you are out are sensible requests to prevent further price hikes.

Posted on 05/12/2022 18:26

I doubt that relates to consumption, rather the price they are having to pay for it. Perhaps they were hoping to get a better long term deal. Certainly when our current contract comes to an end our costs will increase by 100% overnight. I wouldn’t have thought that at the beginning of the year.

near Malvern Hills Club Campsite Member photo by Andrew Cole

Book a late escape

There's still availability at many popular UK Club campsites - find your perfect pitch today for a last minute trip!

Book now
Woman sitting in camping chair by Wastwater in the Lake District with her two dogs and picnic blanket

Follow us on Facebook

Follow the Caravan and Motorhome Club via our official Facebook page for latest news, holiday ideas, events, activities and special offers.

Photo of Wast Water, Lake District by Sue Peace
Visit Facebook