Is EHU metering a good investment?

GEandGJE replied on 28/11/2022 17:23

Posted on 28/11/2022 17:23

I was going to post this in the thread that has been Deleted User as a number of folk were saying that EHU Metering would make pitch prices cheaper, so Let's play the You Said, We Listened and Implemented game. This is my view based on my experience as an IT Infrastructure Project Manager and in IT Procurement.  To satisfy the We don't want EHU and want cheaper pitch prices group of people, the We only want to pay for the electricity we use group of people and the I'll pay whatever as I'm on holiday group of people, the clubs only option is to move to metered usage. How does the club do that and what investment would be needed. Lets estimate that the club has over 10,000 pitches with an average of 2 hookups per bollard that's 5,000 bollards that will need to be modified and/or replaced and some of those will need groundwork undertaken for new cabling etc, it will require  putting all pitches out of action and subsequent loss of income whilst the work takes place. This can't all be done at once and I think that a 5 year rollout period would be a stretch and it would take a dedicated team at HQ to manage. They would need to procure equipment, electrical installation teams, groundwork teams, IT systems and software to operate the metering and payments, negotiate contracts with all the power companies who supply the club sites and negotiate with any land owners. I don't think you would get much change from a £5 million investment of the clubs (our) money. Issues that the club would need to consider 1) leased sites where the land owner doesn't give permission for the work to be carried out or the lease will soon come to an end 2) the price per kW from each of the power suppliers will vary depending on contract length and renewal dates, so do they average that price out across all sites or do you have different EHU costs in different areas of the network 3) do you factor the suppliers standing charge into the  metered cost,  4) the club would need to move to a credit card only payment system where the payment for EUH used is automatically deducted at the end of your stay 5) a central dispute resolution team, as there will always be people who will challenge the bill and that shouldn't be the on site teams and finally the biggest question for the club, 6) what return on investment will the club get. I doubt very much that the savings made from the electricity used would come close to the investment needed therefore the remaining investment would need to come from reserves and most likely recouped from increased pitch prices. Lastly this would give the club a very inconsistent offering with not all sites offering metered EUH, the cost of EHU could vary from site to site and an even bigger price variance across the network. Not a very good Business Case in my view, in terms of both investment and inconvenience to the membership so I can't see it happening I'm afraid.

Cornersteady replied on 05/12/2022 11:06

Posted on 05/12/2022 10:23 by cyberyacht

The thing with restaurants is that you do pay for what you consume. The meal served is a standardised portion. Sides/ second helpings come at a cost. The standard caravanner/motorhomer IS subsidising the electrically obese.

On the point raised by YT on page 32, are we already seeing price pressure? Minehead was quoted at £29. It was the last CAMC site I stayed on two years ago. The cost then £21.50, a rise over the past two years of 38%.

Posted on 05/12/2022 11:06

Always? I use quite a few eat as much as you want restaurants where slides and extras do not cost extra at all and one can have as many courses as one wants . And no they are not full of obese people, and even if they were I'm just interested in my meal and don't constantly look at what the next table are getting through.

But the club, and a lot of other non club sites it has to be said, just offers an all-inclusive package just like certain restaurants holidays, cruise ship..., it's their business model, if one doesn't like it then don't buy it?

So the cost has gone up 38% so what? Either pay it or not? What else are you going to you? Apart from posting on here about it and hoping for a change?

Rocky 2 buckets replied on 05/12/2022 11:37

Posted on 05/12/2022 11:06 by Cornersteady

Always? I use quite a few eat as much as you want restaurants where slides and extras do not cost extra at all and one can have as many courses as one wants . And no they are not full of obese people, and even if they were I'm just interested in my meal and don't constantly look at what the next table are getting through.

But the club, and a lot of other non club sites it has to be said, just offers an all-inclusive package just like certain restaurants holidays, cruise ship..., it's their business model, if one doesn't like it then don't buy it?

So the cost has gone up 38% so what? Either pay it or not? What else are you going to you? Apart from posting on here about it and hoping for a change?

Posted on 05/12/2022 11:37

+1, the voice of common sense MrC👍🏻

ChocolateTrees replied on 05/12/2022 11:59

Posted on 05/12/2022 09:02 by Tinwheeler

ChocT, as an aside, Alde wet heating has been around for decades. I had a 1992 caravan with it fitted and it wasn't a new innovation then. I heard it was originally designed for boats.

Posted on 05/12/2022 11:59

I had no idea! Every day a school day! :-)

Tinwheeler replied on 05/12/2022 12:18

Posted on 05/12/2022 11:59 by ChocolateTrees

I had no idea! Every day a school day! :-)

Posted on 05/12/2022 12:18

Well, there you go. I read somewhere that it was first in use in 1949 so it's as old as I am. 😄

ChocolateTrees replied on 05/12/2022 12:22

Posted on 05/12/2022 10:15 by

From where do you get 60p per kWh?

Re your 18.5 kWh usage in one day a better guide is to look at your bill which must give you an estimated annual usage.  Alternatively what does your smart meter say if you have one.  

Posted on 05/12/2022 12:22

Hi DD, the 60p / kWh is an educated guesstimate based on the cost of public EV charging. Before the energy crisis, public EV charging was between about 25p and 40p/kWh. Domestic energy was about 15p - 18p /kWh. A margin of 20-22p allowing for the 15% difference in VAT. 

Today EV charging, which is not bound by the consumer price cap, is between 70p and 90p Allowing for a similar margin, that makes commercial electricity of the order of 60p / kWh. It's an educated guess - is anyone has a better number, I would be open to hearing / using it to better quantify the proportion of a pitch cost associated with energy use. 

My 18.5kWh for the Sunday 4th is read direct from my home battery system. It's an accurate number and aligns directly with my smart meter data. My usage (at this time of year) is a fairly consistent 18-22 kWh including water heating, without car charging. 

young thomas replied on 05/12/2022 12:32

Posted on 05/12/2022 10:23 by cyberyacht

The thing with restaurants is that you do pay for what you consume. The meal served is a standardised portion. Sides/ second helpings come at a cost. The standard caravanner/motorhomer IS subsidising the electrically obese.

On the point raised by YT on page 32, are we already seeing price pressure? Minehead was quoted at £29. It was the last CAMC site I stayed on two years ago. The cost then £21.50, a rise over the past two years of 38%.

Posted on 05/12/2022 12:32

Wow, I checked it as it's been a good winter site for us in the past...that's a sizeable increase CY.😕

young thomas replied on 05/12/2022 12:51

Posted on 05/12/2022 12:51

"So the cost has gone up 38% so what? Either pay it or not? What else are you going to you? Apart from posting on here about it and hoping for a change?"

i don't see anything wrong with supplying this sort of info...the prices of sites are bound to be linked to folks' reaction to any potential metering.

some will see this rate of increase as the club already doing what they need to to offset power price increases...if the core then feel that they are going to metered, again more expensive for some users, that might be a shock.

replied on 05/12/2022 13:46

Posted on 05/12/2022 12:22 by ChocolateTrees

Hi DD, the 60p / kWh is an educated guesstimate based on the cost of public EV charging. Before the energy crisis, public EV charging was between about 25p and 40p/kWh. Domestic energy was about 15p - 18p /kWh. A margin of 20-22p allowing for the 15% difference in VAT. 

Today EV charging, which is not bound by the consumer price cap, is between 70p and 90p Allowing for a similar margin, that makes commercial electricity of the order of 60p / kWh. It's an educated guess - is anyone has a better number, I would be open to hearing / using it to better quantify the proportion of a pitch cost associated with energy use. 

My 18.5kWh for the Sunday 4th is read direct from my home battery system. It's an accurate number and aligns directly with my smart meter data. My usage (at this time of year) is a fairly consistent 18-22 kWh including water heating, without car charging. 

Posted on 05/12/2022 13:46

The user and all related content has been Deleted User

ChocolateTrees replied on 05/12/2022 14:04

Posted on 05/12/2022 13:46 by

60p per kWh does seem to be a reasonable number for a commercial rate. So based upon an LV average usage of 5 kWh per day the metered cost of power would be £3 per day.  

With regard to your household usage 18 kWh plus is about double the UK average.  If that was our usage I would be wondering why and doing so serious investigation.  It's not unknown for meters to be wrong.

Posted on 05/12/2022 14:04

No - it's right. It's high because

1) We heat all our water on electricity at the moment. 4hours at 3kW over night in a 220L tank. (8-12kWh in water heating depending on usage)

2) I work from home. I use 2 monitors and a laptop.

3) My eldest is at home with a gaming PC on for about 8 hours a day. 

4) There are between 5 and 7 of us at home at  any given time. -> average of 1 laundry load and 1 dishwasher load per day. 

My normal night base load is around 220W, running 2 fridge-freezers, an additional freezer, and a bunch of the usual electronics. 

Lots of people = lots of use. In summer, its as low as 3kWh a day for the same load based on our solar cell gain.

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