Is EHU metering a good investment?

GEandGJE replied on 28/11/2022 17:23

Posted on 28/11/2022 17:23

I was going to post this in the thread that has been Deleted User as a number of folk were saying that EHU Metering would make pitch prices cheaper, so Let's play the You Said, We Listened and Implemented game. This is my view based on my experience as an IT Infrastructure Project Manager and in IT Procurement.  To satisfy the We don't want EHU and want cheaper pitch prices group of people, the We only want to pay for the electricity we use group of people and the I'll pay whatever as I'm on holiday group of people, the clubs only option is to move to metered usage. How does the club do that and what investment would be needed. Lets estimate that the club has over 10,000 pitches with an average of 2 hookups per bollard that's 5,000 bollards that will need to be modified and/or replaced and some of those will need groundwork undertaken for new cabling etc, it will require  putting all pitches out of action and subsequent loss of income whilst the work takes place. This can't all be done at once and I think that a 5 year rollout period would be a stretch and it would take a dedicated team at HQ to manage. They would need to procure equipment, electrical installation teams, groundwork teams, IT systems and software to operate the metering and payments, negotiate contracts with all the power companies who supply the club sites and negotiate with any land owners. I don't think you would get much change from a £5 million investment of the clubs (our) money. Issues that the club would need to consider 1) leased sites where the land owner doesn't give permission for the work to be carried out or the lease will soon come to an end 2) the price per kW from each of the power suppliers will vary depending on contract length and renewal dates, so do they average that price out across all sites or do you have different EHU costs in different areas of the network 3) do you factor the suppliers standing charge into the  metered cost,  4) the club would need to move to a credit card only payment system where the payment for EUH used is automatically deducted at the end of your stay 5) a central dispute resolution team, as there will always be people who will challenge the bill and that shouldn't be the on site teams and finally the biggest question for the club, 6) what return on investment will the club get. I doubt very much that the savings made from the electricity used would come close to the investment needed therefore the remaining investment would need to come from reserves and most likely recouped from increased pitch prices. Lastly this would give the club a very inconsistent offering with not all sites offering metered EUH, the cost of EHU could vary from site to site and an even bigger price variance across the network. Not a very good Business Case in my view, in terms of both investment and inconvenience to the membership so I can't see it happening I'm afraid.

JVB66 replied on 28/11/2022 22:35

Posted on 28/11/2022 22:14 by Cornersteady

I think the last time this was discussed and possible calculations it was said that 10,000 pitches was too low, an average pitch size would be higher than 50. From memory the figures from various posters were anywhere from 5 to 10 million pounds. Where would this money come from, either current reserves or higher something?

But it's all up to the club and they've made their position clear, posted upthread by DK.

Posted on 28/11/2022 22:35

I think it is about that figure for the attempted release so far of the booking system with all the equipment needed to enable sites to use it surprised

Tinwheeler replied on 28/11/2022 22:52

Posted on 28/11/2022 22:30 by JVB66

Our granddaughter works at Tesco's while at uni and when away from uni and as I have posted before she as a multi-tasking staff member works on the self checkout area and  if they are asked to do checks they always have security close by when they as is normally the case some shoppers are caught,and she says it is quite often,

She says if Tesco's could recruit staff they would stop self checkouts as it is quite an easy method of some to get a "cheap shop"

Posted on 28/11/2022 22:52

I’m interested to know whether it is the opinion of Tesco managers and directors that they would like to close the self checkouts, or the view of the temporary employees?

Often the official view of these things differs greatly between decision makers who see the bigger picture and the folk at the coal face with their, inevitably, more limited outlook as can also be seen in CAMC in the varying views of directors and site staff.

Cornersteady replied on 28/11/2022 23:04

Posted on 28/11/2022 22:27 by young thomas

Where did anyone say making a profit out of electricity sales?

I was taking about the general profit made from 'each pitch'....ie total profit divided by number of pitches.

all sites make improvements from their profits...or sometimes borrow to make a significant investment...

Posted on 28/11/2022 23:04

Ah right, wasn't that clear but never mind.

Well even that would fail. A small 20 pitch site would cost £40,000 based on the figures given in the OP and I would think that would come from a loan rather than profits (unless it's a very profitable site) and even I could raise that quite easily.

However that doesn't equate proportionally to the club being able to raise £5 m +. When my old school became a multi academy trust with seven other large schools our borrowing and buying ability and didn't go up seven times. One would think it would like you do but it was explained by our finance team this wasn't the case.

The club would still need to use it's reserves or borrow, either of which will mean getting the money back somehow.

Your non EHU option is a far better way forward which I agree with though stil needs further work. But you don't intend using club sites so  why worry?

Cornersteady replied on 28/11/2022 23:10

Posted on 28/11/2022 22:35 by JVB66

I think it is about that figure for the attempted release so far of the booking system with all the equipment needed to enable sites to use it surprised

Posted on 28/11/2022 23:10

Maybe or maybe not but we're told by Ro that the system had to be replaced as it was nearing its end of life?

young thomas replied on 29/11/2022 09:04

Posted on 28/11/2022 23:04 by Cornersteady

Ah right, wasn't that clear but never mind.

Well even that would fail. A small 20 pitch site would cost £40,000 based on the figures given in the OP and I would think that would come from a loan rather than profits (unless it's a very profitable site) and even I could raise that quite easily.

However that doesn't equate proportionally to the club being able to raise £5 m +. When my old school became a multi academy trust with seven other large schools our borrowing and buying ability and didn't go up seven times. One would think it would like you do but it was explained by our finance team this wasn't the case.

The club would still need to use it's reserves or borrow, either of which will mean getting the money back somehow.

Your non EHU option is a far better way forward which I agree with though stil needs further work. But you don't intend using club sites so  why worry?

Posted on 29/11/2022 09:04

"Your non EHU option is a far better way forward which I agree with though stil needs further work. But you don't intend using club sites so why worry?"

...because this is a discussion forum of which I'm a member. You don't use continental ferries or tour with Europe with your caravan but it doesn't stop you having a view on these topics.

most of us only use a part of the CAMC portfolio but might have a view on a much wider subject range.

as it happens with a lot of things CAMC, I (and others who use/d sites here and abroad) have direct experience of places where other options are deployed and are happy to discuss these solutions....the various processes for managing hook ups is just one.

of course, as soon as the word 'continental' is mentioned, all bets are off apparently, despite many services and processes working far smoother and with less hassle.

still, we can all carry on doing things the same old way, pushing the prices up in the same old way as the price of power increases, but these will be added to all the other cost pressures being experienced today making for fast accelerating prices.

as mentioned above, if other providers start disconnecting (literally) their power element from the overall price, then Club inclusive prices will appear to be out of kilter.

as it happens, I've used two club sites this year....one served a specific 'location' requirement....and it was after the stay at the other one we decided 'no more', so my experience of CAMC is still current, I'd say.🙂

not 'worried' about the subject specifically just 'interested' as a forum member but thanks for your concern.

Takethedogalong replied on 29/11/2022 09:18

Posted on 29/11/2022 09:18

Maybe the Club could sell its patch of redundant land in Bristol? That will fund a few metered bollards for sure…………

cyberyacht replied on 29/11/2022 09:27

Posted on 29/11/2022 09:27

"we will be looking at additional ways to encourage the membership to be mindful of a responsible use of energy when on site."

The most obvious one, given a degree of reluctance to definitely embrace metering, is to reduce the supply to 10amps. That would immediately encourage a more 'responsible use' of electricity.

As for the cost of metering, using the previously posted "fag packet" calculations of about £5M or so, we have, allegedly, just blown £5.7M on the new booking system and that doesn't even work properly.

Cornersteady replied on 29/11/2022 09:32

Posted on 29/11/2022 09:04 by young thomas

"Your non EHU option is a far better way forward which I agree with though stil needs further work. But you don't intend using club sites so why worry?"

...because this is a discussion forum of which I'm a member. You don't use continental ferries or tour with Europe with your caravan but it doesn't stop you having a view on these topics.

most of us only use a part of the CAMC portfolio but might have a view on a much wider subject range.

as it happens with a lot of things CAMC, I (and others who use/d sites here and abroad) have direct experience of places where other options are deployed and are happy to discuss these solutions....the various processes for managing hook ups is just one.

of course, as soon as the word 'continental' is mentioned, all bets are off apparently, despite many services and processes working far smoother and with less hassle.

still, we can all carry on doing things the same old way, pushing the prices up in the same old way as the price of power increases, but these will be added to all the other cost pressures being experienced today making for fast accelerating prices.

as mentioned above, if other providers start disconnecting (literally) their power element from the overall price, then Club inclusive prices will appear to be out of kilter.

as it happens, I've used two club sites this year....one served a specific 'location' requirement....and it was after the stay at the other one we decided 'no more', so my experience of CAMC is still current, I'd say.🙂

not 'worried' about the subject specifically just 'interested' as a forum member but thanks for your concern.

Posted on 29/11/2022 09:32

Actually while I may have views about such things done abroad I have never, or hardly ever posted about them and certainly not in the great detail that you often do in the UK sections.

I have posted that it's meaningless to do so and the CM has posted that if anyone wants to do that then start a new thread.

Two sites this year? Ok I thought you said none but noted. That doesn't make you the expert though in all things club compared to others who use them far more (not just me btw). No doubt your IT skills in street were excellent but running a Club Site especially to do with getting £5m?

In any case as it's no more from now on so again why so bothered?

Incidentally the only person to use continental recently was yousmile

But back on topic the non EHU option should be looked rather than finding £5 to 10 million?

GEandGJE replied on 29/11/2022 09:45

Posted on 29/11/2022 09:27 by cyberyacht

"we will be looking at additional ways to encourage the membership to be mindful of a responsible use of energy when on site."

The most obvious one, given a degree of reluctance to definitely embrace metering, is to reduce the supply to 10amps. That would immediately encourage a more 'responsible use' of electricity.

As for the cost of metering, using the previously posted "fag packet" calculations of about £5M or so, we have, allegedly, just blown £5.7M on the new booking system and that doesn't even work properly.

Posted on 29/11/2022 09:45

If you had read the annual balance sheet the £5.7m was the cost of all IT services and not the cost the the Booking System project.

SteveL replied on 29/11/2022 09:47

Posted on 29/11/2022 09:18 by Takethedogalong

Maybe the Club could sell its patch of redundant land in Bristol? That will fund a few metered bollards for sure…………

Posted on 29/11/2022 09:47

Is it worth anything? If you can’t have a caravan site, where the occupants can be easily evacuated, it’s hardly going to be viewed as prime building land and that’s where the money is.

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