Is EHU metering a good investment?

GEandGJE replied on 28/11/2022 17:23

Posted on 28/11/2022 17:23

I was going to post this in the thread that has been Deleted User as a number of folk were saying that EHU Metering would make pitch prices cheaper, so Let's play the You Said, We Listened and Implemented game. This is my view based on my experience as an IT Infrastructure Project Manager and in IT Procurement.  To satisfy the We don't want EHU and want cheaper pitch prices group of people, the We only want to pay for the electricity we use group of people and the I'll pay whatever as I'm on holiday group of people, the clubs only option is to move to metered usage. How does the club do that and what investment would be needed. Lets estimate that the club has over 10,000 pitches with an average of 2 hookups per bollard that's 5,000 bollards that will need to be modified and/or replaced and some of those will need groundwork undertaken for new cabling etc, it will require  putting all pitches out of action and subsequent loss of income whilst the work takes place. This can't all be done at once and I think that a 5 year rollout period would be a stretch and it would take a dedicated team at HQ to manage. They would need to procure equipment, electrical installation teams, groundwork teams, IT systems and software to operate the metering and payments, negotiate contracts with all the power companies who supply the club sites and negotiate with any land owners. I don't think you would get much change from a £5 million investment of the clubs (our) money. Issues that the club would need to consider 1) leased sites where the land owner doesn't give permission for the work to be carried out or the lease will soon come to an end 2) the price per kW from each of the power suppliers will vary depending on contract length and renewal dates, so do they average that price out across all sites or do you have different EHU costs in different areas of the network 3) do you factor the suppliers standing charge into the  metered cost,  4) the club would need to move to a credit card only payment system where the payment for EUH used is automatically deducted at the end of your stay 5) a central dispute resolution team, as there will always be people who will challenge the bill and that shouldn't be the on site teams and finally the biggest question for the club, 6) what return on investment will the club get. I doubt very much that the savings made from the electricity used would come close to the investment needed therefore the remaining investment would need to come from reserves and most likely recouped from increased pitch prices. Lastly this would give the club a very inconsistent offering with not all sites offering metered EUH, the cost of EHU could vary from site to site and an even bigger price variance across the network. Not a very good Business Case in my view, in terms of both investment and inconvenience to the membership so I can't see it happening I'm afraid.

JVB66 replied on 28/11/2022 18:57

Posted on 28/11/2022 18:48 by GEandGJE

I think a trial of metering  at a site or couple of sites would be purely to obtain data on the actual electricity used by pitch and pitch types. Also the to gauge costs, installation and to also trial payment systems and all of that data can then be used to determine the feasibility of a network rollout. Also a trial like that can be done without impacting members.

Posted on 28/11/2022 18:57

Site electricity usage may already be known as my post to tinny explained that site meters read by site staff monthly give to EGH have several different readings 

JVB66 replied on 28/11/2022 18:59

Posted on 28/11/2022 18:56 by Tinwheeler

Sorry, I’m not in a position to answer your question or to comment on the rest.

Posted on 28/11/2022 18:59

Sorry thought I had posted separately not as replying surprised

Tinwheeler replied on 28/11/2022 19:08

Posted on 28/11/2022 18:59 by JVB66

Sorry thought I had posted separately not as replying surprised

Posted on 28/11/2022 19:08

You quoted my post and then said to GE "…as my post to tinny explained…". Therefore, it's a very good impression of a reply😂😂😂. No matter🤯

GEandGJE replied on 28/11/2022 19:15

Posted on 28/11/2022 18:57 by JVB66

Site electricity usage may already be known as my post to tinny explained that site meters read by site staff monthly give to EGH have several different readings 

Posted on 28/11/2022 19:15

Sorry JVB I read your post as that calibration of meters was needed as they were giving different reading not that site staff already take readings.

young thomas replied on 28/11/2022 19:25

Posted on 28/11/2022 19:25

Another view based primarily as a customer who has used the system David above relates.

It may not be possible to satisfy all the members without some sort of investment...however it's pretty easy to satisfy the 'We don't want EHU and want cheaper pitch prices' group of people AND the 'I'll pay whatever as I'm on holiday' group of people.

all that's needed is a non-EHU option on every pitch...simply plug in or not and charge as appropriate.


Of course this relies on trust and the 'deterrent' of the warden wandering over the site (surely something normally done) to ensure there's no misuse.

It won't satisfy everyone but (as Meatloaf suggested) 2 out of 3 ain't bad😉...and costs nothing.

Hja replied on 28/11/2022 20:24

Posted on 28/11/2022 20:24

Somewhere, either on this forum or elsewhere, there was a response from someone who is involved in campsites involving both statics and tourers.  They said that metering/cost of electricity was the biggest topic exercising the minds of site owners at present.  Not surprising, especially when you see some of the prices they are paying at easily three times the domestic rate.

Site owners will face the issue of either metering in some way (or having non-EHU pitches if appropriate) or putting up pitch prices to cover the costs.

It is clear from seeing details from some CLs that an increasing number are now metering in some way.  I have no knowledge of what CSs are doing, but they presumably have similar issues.

If quite a lot of commercial sites go down the metering/non EHU route and the Club doesnt but just includes the electricity price within its pitch price as now, then the Club's pitches will soon appear to be very expensive in comparison to other sites.

Obviously there are lots of imponderables in the original post that we cant answer, such as how the Club organises its electricity contracts, how many leases are to come for renewal in the next five years etc.

My understanding was that the Club IS going to do some trials, but I dont know how, when, where or what the main aim will be.

I know the Club have put new bollards in some of the refurbished sites - are those easier to put meters on? Maybe the Club is more prepared than we think!

This isnt an issue that is going to go away anytime soon and I cant see the long term issue being anything but metering, may be with an ehu/non ehu option in the interim.  I also dont think the time scale is a very long one.  My guess is that metering could be one of those snowballing things, starts slowly (as it already has) and quickly speeds up.  Probably the changeover will be limited by the availability of the necessary kit and staff to install.

I would hope that the Club is seriously investigating all the issues involved, and all the options, with some degree of urgency.  To be cynical for a moment, this isnt necessarily about members preferences etc, but more about the bottom line.  GE, in their original post, doesnt think there is a good business case, but maybe the bad business case is actually to do nothing.

eurortraveller replied on 28/11/2022 20:35

Posted on 28/11/2022 20:35

I think I first came across a campsite with metered electricity fully 30 years ago - somewhere on the south side of the Brenner Pass - but some members still write as though it’s an incredible modern invention. That site could afford to instal tnem then, and CAMC one day will.

Ooh  it’s going to be such an exciting ride for some members as this Club eventually modernises. Hold tight. 

Navigateur replied on 28/11/2022 20:48

Posted on 28/11/2022 20:48

Can I froth up the muddy waters a bit by suggesting the The Caravan Club might well be able to fix their own price if they generate their own electricity.

DavidKlyne replied on 28/11/2022 20:58

Posted on 28/11/2022 20:58

This is what was said at the AGM in response to a question about providing more non EHU pitches:- 

"The Club is actively looking at options for introducing metering, with a view to being able to test and trial a simple operating solution on one or two sites in 2023. We do already have a small number of "eco pitches" across the network, but we recognise they are not currently widespread. Metering would help facilitate the option of non-electric pitches in the future.  In addition, the Club is introducing energy-saving technologies to sites as they are redeveloped and as part of the sustainability journey, we will be looking at additional ways to encourage the membership to be mindful of a responsible use of energy when on site."

David

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