Increase size of CLs?

Its not about return on investment... it's whether you're willing to give up your summer, and the associated hassle for running a CL.

If you consider most basic CLs are only open 7 months of the year, 60% occupancy (if your lucky) of 5 vans at £10 per night equates to £5880 per year. Minus business rates, a decent mower,  servicing and fuel, hedge cutting, rubbish removal, water and foul rates, time taken for bookings, mowing,  sorting recycling, repairing the ground etc etc... on top of water, foul, electric installation, gates, gateway hardcore, fencing, landscaping etc

Would you give up your summer for what's left? 

Like i say i think we need to rebrand and value what CLs offer, not just look at the basic investment etc. Pay for the tranquility, rest, relaxation otherwise they will disappear... After all you don't really think that meal in the pub cost the landlord £12 to make do you? Why should CLs be different if it means we can keep those excellent sites? 

Just a devils advocates view... 

Are the CCC's CS's (equivalent of CLs) 10 vans?  

We have been to a fair few CLs and CS's with more than 5 vans on - but then many dont even ask to see a membership card anyway

No, the limit is still 5 caravans/motorhomes (1960 Act) but they may also be able to accommodate up to 10 tents as well with a separate exemption under the Public Health Act 1936.

Its not about return on investment... it's whether you're willing to give up your summer, and the associated hassle for running a CL.

If you consider most basic CLs are only open 7 months of the year, 60% occupancy (if your lucky) of 5 vans at £10 per night equates to £5880 per year. Minus business rates, a decent mower,  servicing and fuel, hedge cutting, rubbish removal, water and foul rates, time taken for bookings, mowing,  sorting recycling, repairing the ground etc etc... on top of water, foul, electric installation, gates, gateway hardcore, fencing, landscaping etc

Would you give up your summer for what's left? 

Like i say i think we need to rebrand and value what CLs offer, not just look at the basic investment etc. Pay for the tranquility, rest, relaxation otherwise they will disappear... After all you don't really think that meal in the pub cost the landlord £12 to make do you? Why should CLs be different if it means we can keep those excellent sites? 

Just a devils advocates view... 

 

The extent to which an owner gives up their summer depends on the CL itself doesn't it? If the CL is on a farm, at a garden centre or at a pub which is being worked anyway then the summer is already "given up".

The investment is the same. If the CL is in a field which would be used for little else then there will be few outgoings to set against the income.

Naturally one should expect to pay a price which allows the owner to recover costs and make a profit but that does not mean that all CLs have to be full of facilities and priced accordingly.

Graham

Within 40mins towing time from me is Little Baddow fruit farm , they have 2 CL's , hookup , waste disposal and water 

Within 40mins towing time from me is Little Baddow fruit farm , they have 2 CL's , hookup , waste disposal and water .

Maybe this an option ?

See my earlier comments... it shouldn't be an option:

I do think the club are stretching the rules when licencing one CL next to another with just a hedge between them. It's  likely to be pushing the boundaries of the Clubs licence and if they get caught it could jeopardise all CL owners for the sake of av few that really should pursue a commercial site permission if they want more units... 

Are there actually many such "dual" sites? I know of only one more, near Malvern where a C&CC CS is adjacent to a MCC CL.

Is there any indication from Natural England that they frown on the practice? Even if there were then I dare say they would deal with the few individual cases, rather than be heavy handed, as they simply don't have the resources for protracted battles.

Graham

there is one (two?) such site at Bibury....two adjacent fields run by different partners.....both nice and a notice on the gate tells you which fiels 'your' cl is in....

On larger sites it would make sence to allow 7 pitches at week ends only. This would give weekenders a choice of site to use  allso it would help to keep the overheads of the site down.

The rules have never been changed in 40 years on CLs 

On larger sites it would make sence to allow 7 pitches at week ends only. This would give weekenders a choice of site to use  allso it would help to keep the overheads of the site down.

The rules have never been changed in 40 years on CLs 

I don't know when CC rules regarding CLs last changed but the number of vans allowed on CLs is governed by law, not a mere club rule. That has not changed since 1960 and is hardly likely to as successive governments have shown no interest in changing legislation which, in the main, works well.

Graham

Pushing for a change in the law to increase the number of pitches could backfire very badly.

Having the entire exemption scheme debated in parliament could give those who think Caravans are an abomination an opportunity to abolish the exemption scheme entirely. 

Best not to kick any dog but kicking a big sleeping one that can bite can be a risky business 

Vulcan, I don't doubt that you and other members are happy with things as they are. I was simply pointing out why one local CL owner was not. The declining number of CLs shows that there are other owners who feel the same way.

There are many reasons CLs close, one reason may be as you suggest in your posts. You are assuming that many CLs are closing as unviable, but it could be because of retirement, change of ownership, overbooking or change of use for the land etc. Until the CC go back to giving the reason for closures as they used to, sadly none of us will know.

Am I right in thinking that you've closed your CL, oakapple? If so would you be willing to relate the reason for doing so?

Within 40mins towing time from me is Little Baddow fruit farm , they have 2 CL's , hookup , waste disposal and water 

Within 40mins towing time from me is Little Baddow fruit farm , they have 2 CL's , hookup , waste disposal and water .

Maybe this an option ?

See my earlier comments... it shouldn't be an option:

I do think the club are stretching the rules when licencing one CL next to another with just a hedge between them. It's  likely to be pushing the boundaries of the Clubs licence and if they get caught it could jeopardise all CL owners for the sake of av few that really should pursue a commercial site permission if they want more units... 

Are there actually many such "dual" sites? I know of only one more, near Malvern where a C&CC CS is adjacent to a MCC CL.

Is there any indication from Natural England that they frown on the practice? Even if there were then I dare say they would deal with the few individual cases, rather than be heavy handed, as they simply don't have the resources for protracted battles.

Graham

there is one (two?) such site at Bibury....two adjacent fields run by different partners.....both nice and a notice on the gate tells you which fiels 'your' cl is in....

Disagree with you there, BB. The fields are certainly not adjacent. Infact one cannot see one site from the other unless you're in the extreme corner of each. However I do agree that they are both nice sites, one being all grass and the other having H/S pitches.

Having ready through the site directory many times I would guess that there may be about half a dozen owners that run two seperate CLs but without looking on Goolge Earth I'm not sure how close to eachother they may be.

I think two separate CLs is rare, but we know of a number of other arrangements, such as a CL and a CS, CL and private site. The examples I am thinking of are all very nice and we use on a fairly regular basis.