2030 - No new ICE cars to be sold

NutsyH replied on 19/11/2020 10:56

Posted on 19/11/2020 10:56

What is the Club's position on this announcement?

It sounds the death knell for towing anything like a decent size caravan unless reasonably priced electric cars capable of towing over 200 miles without recharge suddenly appear, and the recharging infrastructure expands rapidly. Given the incompetence of most politicians that is unlikely to happen.

Or do we think this is just another of Bojo's announcements that will quietly be forgotten when it becomes clear that there is no chance of this happening by 2030?

Perhaps the Club could enlighten us on whether it is engaging with the Government, as it is abundantly clear that no thought has been given to this issue by the Politicos.

Airborne replied on 25/11/2020 10:49

Posted on 25/11/2020 10:49

I think the caravan and motorhome clubs and the relevant leisure industries need to get together on this and do some serious lobbying - and fast!

Leaving aside the issues about charging, cost and all the environmental impacts associated with batteries that will affect all drivers, there are specific issues that could prove fatal for this industry. Electric motors have the power and torque to tow or propel. That's not the problem. The issue is battery capacity. My diesel tow car drops from 40-50mpg to 25-30mpg when towing (towing range 300-350 miles). That additional energy use will also apply to any electric tow car, so the range of an EV will drop from (say) 250 miles to around 150 miles.

To build an equivalent all electric towing vehicle, apart from the substantial cost of more batteries, there would be their significant additional weight (which would have to be transported even when not towing). I have read some suggesting the extra batteries go in the caravan. That's a huge cost for batteries that would rarely be used and, critically, would substantially increase the weight of the caravan, thus impacting on the ability to tow and its stability and give something else for certain "low life's" to steal.

The overall weight of car+van (or a motorhome with adequate range) would be well over the current 3,500kg limit, so everyone would also need the (pointless) B+E licence to tow. That is assuming that anyone will be making all-electric tow cars with sufficient towing capacity and 4WD (or making them at an affordable price). The current trends are to reduce the towing capacity of cars, drop 4WD and lighten caravans to the point of extreme fragility.

Then there is the issue of charging at the camp sites, particularly at and after peak arrival times. I have been to some campsites that struggle to provide for a 16A outlet on every pitch. The implications of doubling or tripling such demand in many rural areas would often be impossible for the local grid and cabling to meet (even if the normal local demand for EV charging could be met - which is also questionable). BTW - even in urban areas, your local street will probably not have the supply capacity to charge all the cars and vans parked there once the majority become EVs. This concept means we have to rewire the entire country! (and try funding that in the vast rural areas of Scotland!).

Hydrogen powered vehicles may offer a solution, but the concept needs much more development and infrastructure than can be achieved in 9 years (or probably 19 years).

Of course the construction, equine, boating and farming industries also need to be able to tow significant loads (e.g. a typical 2-horse trailer weighs 2.1 - 2.2 tonnes laden, with no weight allowance or space for batteries) and those needs are also mostly located in rural areas. The caravan industry needs to get together with these groups and make the case for the ongoing availability of diesel tow cars (most trucks will remain diesel for a lot lot longer and so the fuel should remain available), at least until a viable alternative becomes available.

Having said all this, I still fear that many campers will be priced and taxed out of the market. No worry, you can fly to sunny Spain for a holiday - that will be much better for the environment and the UK economy!

DavidKlyne replied on 25/11/2020 11:18

Posted on 25/11/2020 11:18

Airborne

You make a worthwhile point about the weight of batteries in electric vehicles. It is something that just won't impact on caravans but also on motorhomes if the current licencing regime remains in place. It will almost be impossible to run a 3500kgs battery powered motorhome on the standard licence whilst maintaining a reasonable payload. This is something that the Club and the Industry should be pushing for.

David

peedee replied on 25/11/2020 11:36

Posted on 25/11/2020 11:18 by DavidKlyne

Airborne

You make a worthwhile point about the weight of batteries in electric vehicles. It is something that just won't impact on caravans but also on motorhomes if the current licencing regime remains in place. It will almost be impossible to run a 3500kgs battery powered motorhome on the standard licence whilst maintaining a reasonable payload. This is something that the Club and the Industry should be pushing for.

David

Posted on 25/11/2020 11:36

In 2018, UK law was changed so that the weight limit for Category B driving licence holders driving alternatively-fuelled vehicles could be increased from 3.5 tonnes to 4.25 tonnes

peedee

Compo replied on 25/11/2020 11:41

Posted on 25/11/2020 11:41

I am no engineer, but would it be possible to use the axle on the caravan to generate power to help charge the batteries whilst on the move. thereby extending the distance the tow vehicle could travel without needing a recharge.?

LLM replied on 25/11/2020 11:53

Posted on 25/11/2020 11:53

In theory regenerative power could be harvested from the trailer braking effort.  Lots of engineering problems to overcome though and the cost could be eye watering.  

 

Metheven replied on 25/11/2020 11:54

Posted on 25/11/2020 11:41 by Compo

I am no engineer, but would it be possible to use the axle on the caravan to generate power to help charge the batteries whilst on the move. thereby extending the distance the tow vehicle could travel without needing a recharge.?

Posted on 25/11/2020 11:54

My thoughts on that are that you can't get something for nothing. If the caravans axle was used to charge the cars batteries, then that generator would produce rolling efficiency drag of the caravan because of the loading of the generator, and that would need more power from the cars batteries to pull it along. So maybe cancelled out?

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