How to thrive on a non 240v site!

I am going to muddy the waters.  I also have a energy bull AGM battery. I wasn't sure what set my morning star controller on either gel or flooded so I emailed Banner to ask. They emailed back within the hour to tell me set it to flooded, which wasn't the answer I expected. 

Incidentally Merve you may find this concept interesting all the way from the US of A. http://www.roadtrek.com/featured-options/ecotrek/

just to add to the last two posts, i think the issue is not that the Banners are bad per se, merely that charger (and alternator) technology hasnt caught up with the new types of battery, specifically AGM.

Boff and I have got two different answers regarding the 'best' charging regime for AGM.

meanwhile, Schaudt and Hymer have apparently spent a wad developing a charger profile to cater thus.....i wonder why it was so difficult, just a PCB program...??

either way, the current poor relationship of (some) battery/charger combinations apparently puts a lot of 'pressure' on the chargers, leading to a higher number of expensive charger failures than when charging wet lead acid....

im just the messenger, the data will be on aandacaravan website.

good luck.

Hi BB, I'm interested in your comment about Schaudt and Hymer developing a charging profile for AGM.  My Schaudt unit made in 2015 still has the the choice of flooded or Gel.  Despite Hymer fitting an AGM as standard.  They fitted a Varta btw.  I supplied Banner with the charging profile from the solar controller, I was worried about the monthly high voltage charge.  As you say it seems that Agm batteries require a different charging profile, but being cynical I wonder how much of that is marketing talk, on the other hand at close to £200 a time I don't want to destroy one as an experiment  

Maybe you should ask Banner the same question to see if you get the same answer?

PS. BB, your expert advised you to fit Bosch / Varta wet batteries. I thought this was a no no due to the potential of gassing in an unventilated space. 

we have a CBE charger in the Carthago and the same settings as you.

i am 'on the road' today but have my ipad with me, all the 'gen' is in a couple of (long and technical) emails sent to me. ill try and chop the salient bits if i can find them a bit later....

Boff, some of the AGM 'dialog'

"Hello, First of all you have to take what I am about to tell you with a pinch of Sodium Chloride as I am quite anti-AGM because we have seen so many chargers brought to their knees by them.
Some by Banner AGM batteries less than 9 months old, we rarely see a good Banner more then 2 years old..

You will know that all the big four battery manufacturers state that only a charger optimised for AGM should be used. Not one says the Gel is even a half suitable substitute IF you want full performance and maximum life.

When Hymer/Schaudt/Banner launched a switch from Exide Gel G80's in 2015 to Banner AGM with a big fanfair, all three companies stated that a Gel charge profile was ok.
But behind the scenes Hymer put a lot of pressure on Schaudt to deliver AGM optimised chargers from Solar regulators, auxiliary chargers and full blown EBL's.
They spent hundreds of thousands on R & D all of which was passed on to Hymer who did the deal with Banner before finding out if AGM batteries would survive on Gel based chargers.

Ask yourself why Hymer/Schaudt spent a fortune on special, specific, AGM optimised chargers if Gel was adequate?

Go to any website and they will tell you that AGM are the most fussy Lead acid battery technology over the exact charging profile, or short life, and loss of capacity will occur.
You will also read that 14.7v is essential. Exactly what the big four battery manufacturers also say.

So knowing that AGM are far more intolerant than Wet batteries or Gel and that they need 14.7v 'Boost' charge and 13.5v float charge, how can a fixed 14.4v Alternator ever get the best out of them?

The new 2017 model vans are finally going to get AGM optimised Alternator charging.
It isn't just the mains charges that are wrong for AGM, it was the Solar regulators and Alternators too.
Ever seen an AGM setting on an old Alternator?

Cars with AGM batteries have ECU controlled alternators with multi voltage capability, where is that on your Motorhome?

If AGM batteries were 3 fold better, then this intolerance and fussy charging might be worth it, but while thy are billed as 'superior' to ordinary, old technology, Lead acid batteries, in the real world they lag behind the best of Breed Powerframe Wet technology from Varta and Bosch.

If you look at our 'How a battery works' page you will see evidence from various sources that AGM and Gel batteries are not the Safe/Gas tight batteries you will read on the forums.
Every big battery manufacturer for AGM and Gel has small print that says they don't dry out 'under normal circumstances'.
Quite different to 'never' losing fluid. Did you know that long term Solar charging/mains charging is outside that 'normal use' and will dry out an AGM?

AGM are actually the most dangerous, in our view, having seen many exploded ones.
One of the biggest battery surveys of thousands of batteries, recorded 'Dry out' as the cause of failure for 33% of all VRLA (Gel/AGM) batteries.
See : http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/how-does-a-battery-work.php"

as i said, Im just the messenger

Thanks, for that.    Scary stuff.  I have seen the effects of a starter battery blowing up.  I have currently got a Varta (Hymer fit) and a Banner dealer fit linked in parallel. I am not totally convinced they are holding as much charge as I would like. This is not a problem this time of year the Solar keeps it all topped up but over New year I did get a drop after 3 nights so had to recharge.   

Bottom line seems to be it is impossible to work out what do for the best. Maybe I should swap back to my old Varta wet cell battery.  The batteries are fortunately situated under the seat where my wife sits so I am fairly safe. 

Just got back to the forum. BB and Boff- that's very informative regarding the different batteries. Not sure that Banner Bull are available in the old tech are they? Obviously being non EHU it's imperative that the charging regime is perfect for the battery/s being used. To throw another talking point into the mix- what about li ion batteries? Price aside for a moment-  The literature says that the solve many of the problems associated with the older technologies. If this is true, might they not be worth the extra and considering the fact that they last 4 times the life of the lead batteries? And then there is the weight issue which is staggeringly different. Your comments gentlemen would be much appreciated not only by me but I'm sure by all those who watch this thread closely. I have just been contacted by a fellow caravanner from Ireland who is going down the non EHU route and is very excited about doing so.  All knowledge and technical knowhow should be expounded on this forum. Thanks guys.

Hi
Hopefully may have converted another to using non 240v EHU sites
Just had the following review left today!
“A HIDDEN GEM”
“We stayed over the bank holiday to try camping off grid. The site, despite its slope, was carefully planned to accommodate both caravans and motor homes. The grass is short, battery charging via the solar panel is available, and the site is well kept. The off grid experience was a good experience.”
If any of you are ever in Oxfordshire come and stay with us at Newton Grove
Regards,
John
NEWTON GROVE, Barford Road, South Newington, BANBURY, OX15 4LN
Caravan & Motorhome Club Site Directory 2017/18 no: 1273 (p440) CMC Listing
Reviews
E: newton.grove@btconnect.com
P: 07722 918265
W: newtongrove.co.uk
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/NewtonGroveCL

Nice one John. It's an uphill struggle to convince anyone how brilliant it is to be off grid and how easy it is to be fully comfortable! We are at the moment on our favourite site and I would never have found it had I still been 'in the matrix' with my orange cable and Calor cylinder!  We don't want too many though mate- more for the rest of us although I realise you view it from a slightly different angle to me! 😂😂😂

Merve, re Li-ion batteries, my only experience is in the golf trolley arena.

my brothers Lead Acid battery eventually died and he replaced it with a Li-ion one.....very expensive, but can be completely discharged and is about a fifth of the weight, amp for amp.