Weights and the law

MLR6Norris replied on 08/01/2017 12:34

Posted on 08/01/2017 12:34

Our driving licenses only allow us to tow a combined weight of 3500kg. The fully laden weight of our caravan is 1400kg BUT we never fill it to tow, we only carry basic kitchen equipment, water roll, waste tank and a couple of camping chairs (no clothing, bedding or food/drink etc).

So in theory we have 2100kg for the gross weight of the car. 

I get to change my car this year so have been looking at options, but the best options seem to be coming in slightly over at 2180kg.

My question is, if for any reason, someone decided to check our total weight, would they purely look at the figures (2180+1400 = illegal), or would they actually weigh us? There would only be 2 of us plus the dog in the car, with our luggage etc, so i'm sure we'd never actually be over the 3500kg.

Any advice gratefully received! 

allanandjean replied on 09/01/2017 14:05

Posted on 09/01/2017 14:05

Text below from .Gov website and key part in italics. Its quite simple really as you just take the max caravan weight from 3500kg and what is left is the MAX GROSS weight of the towcar-so using OP figures he can have a car up to 2100 MAX gross vehicle weight.

The actual weights are not the key but the GROSS figure quoted by the car and caravan makers. You may be unlikely to be stopped but it would be very easy to identify if you were 'illegal'.

"What you can tow
The rules on what you can tow are different depending on when you passed your driving test.

View your driving licence information to see if you’re allowed to tow.

Licences issued from 1 January 1997
If you passed your car driving test on or after 1 January 1997 you can:

drive a car or van up to 3,500kg maximum authorised mass (MAM) towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM


tow a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as the combined MAM of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg


MAM is the limit on how much the vehicle can weigh when it’s loaded.
You have to pass the car and trailer driving test if you want to tow anything heavier."

ocsid replied on 09/01/2017 14:11

Posted on 09/01/2017 14:11

Being caught probably is a low risk, though IMO an unwise risk, by far the bigger risk comes should you, for whatever reason be involved in some accident.

Then I can see depending on the circumstances interest could be shown in your licence entitlements.

 I am sure your insurer at the least will not be keen to pick up your own losses and others might take you to the cleaners.

obbernockle replied on 09/01/2017 15:16

Posted on 09/01/2017 15:16

There are plenty of cars made by just about every manufacturer which will match your caravan and give you a legal outfit. Not just legal but, quite nice!

Start with the gross weight limit of just inside 2100Kg and you will see some nice medium sized 4x4's, 2wd hatch backs, etc. Don't worry too much about the guidance of MTPLM = no more than 85% of car kerb weight, because that's not a legal requirement and some cars are easily capable of much better than that. Lots of people tow with near 100% ratio, and if its the right type of car its fine. Example Nissan Quashqai Gross weights under 2100 easily capable of towing your 1400Kg caravan. I like the Skoda Yeti and there's a 4x4 with the 2.0 TDi  engine which will easily tow your caravan anywhere. If you are buying a second hand car, always check the maximum gross and towing limit shown on the plate on the B post. This is the legal limit which the authorities would check.

mickysf replied on 09/01/2017 17:12

Posted on 09/01/2017 17:12

Just a word of caution, whilst driving along the M1 A police car overtook me and escorted us to a mobile weigh bridge they had set up at the service station. Luckily I was just under and he kindly sent us on our way with a print out of all axial weights etc. There were other cars with caravans and motorcaravans there either already weighed or waiting to be weighed. I didn't hang about to ask questions but I learnt a valuable lesson on such issues.

Lutz replied on 09/01/2017 22:32

Posted on 09/01/2017 22:32

Only the plated weight count as far as driving licence entitlement is concerned , so if the police were actually weighing vehicles they would only be checking whether they were overloaded or not and not whether the driver's licence was in order.

mickysf replied on 10/01/2017 08:41

Posted on 09/01/2017 22:32 by Lutz

Only the plated weight count as far as driving licence entitlement is concerned , so if the police were actually weighing vehicles they would only be checking whether they were overloaded or not and not whether the driver's licence was in order.

Posted on 10/01/2017 08:41

On paper this is true! But once out on the road you would be wise to know and abide by the actual weight stipulations!. You would not want to be left at the side of the road with confiscated property and facing a fine or ban!

Wildwood replied on 10/01/2017 15:51

Posted on 09/01/2017 15:16 by obbernockle

There are plenty of cars made by just about every manufacturer which will match your caravan and give you a legal outfit. Not just legal but, quite nice!

Start with the gross weight limit of just inside 2100Kg and you will see some nice medium sized 4x4's, 2wd hatch backs, etc. Don't worry too much about the guidance of MTPLM = no more than 85% of car kerb weight, because that's not a legal requirement and some cars are easily capable of much better than that. Lots of people tow with near 100% ratio, and if its the right type of car its fine. Example Nissan Quashqai Gross weights under 2100 easily capable of towing your 1400Kg caravan. I like the Skoda Yeti and there's a 4x4 with the 2.0 TDi  engine which will easily tow your caravan anywhere. If you are buying a second hand car, always check the maximum gross and towing limit shown on the plate on the B post. This is the legal limit which the authorities would check.

Posted on 10/01/2017 15:51

Sorry but being too free and easy with the weights is not good practice. As someone who had to investigate accidents for an insurer the only cars I came across with caravans in tow where the driver had lost control were oVer or near the 100% mark. I do accept that it is possible to safely exceed the 85% figure with many tow cars but all outfits are different and a good match with one caravan may not be a good one for another make even of similar weight.

Frankly anyone advising that a driver takes the caravan anywhere near the 100% mark is not doing them  a favour and could be signing their death warrant. You may only find out if a match is poor when it is too late and an outfit that seems to behave well may not do so when an emergency occurs.

You would probably manage with the Quashqai or Yeti but you have to be aware of their limitations and personally I would want something a little heavier.

obbernockle replied on 10/01/2017 21:14

Posted on 10/01/2017 15:51 by Wildwood

Sorry but being too free and easy with the weights is not good practice. As someone who had to investigate accidents for an insurer the only cars I came across with caravans in tow where the driver had lost control were oVer or near the 100% mark. I do accept that it is possible to safely exceed the 85% figure with many tow cars but all outfits are different and a good match with one caravan may not be a good one for another make even of similar weight.

Frankly anyone advising that a driver takes the caravan anywhere near the 100% mark is not doing them  a favour and could be signing their death warrant. You may only find out if a match is poor when it is too late and an outfit that seems to behave well may not do so when an emergency occurs.

You would probably manage with the Quashqai or Yeti but you have to be aware of their limitations and personally I would want something a little heavier.

Posted on 10/01/2017 21:14

Who's being free and easy?  You have very nearly said the same as I did. I said "if it's the right type of car".  I gave examples Quashqai and Yeti which in both cases are quite sensible match for the caravan concerned, assuming the right specification of the vehicle is chosen by checking the plated weights. You also accept that these examples are acceptable.

Don't forget that the op is looking for a legal outfit for a b licence, so your advice to go for "something heavier" would presumably exceed the 2,100Kg Gross vehicle weight within the legal limit for the outfit.

Since the op was looking for help, it might be good of you to nominate some examples of suitable cars.

 

Lutz replied on 10/01/2017 21:59

Posted on 10/01/2017 08:41 by mickysf

On paper this is true! But once out on the road you would be wise to know and abide by the actual weight stipulations!. You would not want to be left at the side of the road with confiscated property and facing a fine or ban!

Posted on 10/01/2017 21:59

I am trying to work out what you are trying to say. If the plated weights of car and caravan combined to not add up to more than 3500kg then you'd be alright on a Category B licence and if the actual weights don't exceed each plated weight, you'd be OK, too, and that has nothing to do with your licence, so why would property be confiscated or anyone be facing a ban?

commeyras replied on 10/01/2017 22:57

Posted on 10/01/2017 22:57

This topic is getting too complex for meundecided. The rules are quite simple and explained clearly in the 'Advice and Training' Section which you can get to at the top of the page so I am not going to repeat them except to say that they state the Maximum Authorised Weights (as shown on the plate/V5) not the laden weight   Break the law and you risk being fined and probably having no insurance for either car or caravan or motorhome; so that would be more points! 

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