Electric car pulling a caravan

hoppytravel replied on 27/06/2022 11:00

Posted on 27/06/2022 11:00

Hello, I was wondering whether anyone has an electric car which they are using to pull a caravan.  If so I’d be grateful for as much information/advice as you have the time to give.  Thanks very much. 

ChocolateTrees replied on 04/07/2022 11:00

Posted on 04/07/2022 10:01 by JVB66

If only the real world of charging an EV was that easy ,when as in our area we have no access to overnight charging,from our terrace houses 

And is it a fact because of the heat generated by fast and ultra fast charging systems it is not recommended. To be done on a regular basis?

The up to miles per charge  as per OHs son is very much not the case in traffic or when any of the  in car comforts are used ,he has a VW 3?

Posted on 04/07/2022 11:00

JVB, I do live in the real world. In my real world I have a drive. Yes I am lucky, but so do over half of other UK households. In Oxford, the council allow gully’s to be cut into the pavement to allow charging cables to be run to support charging in terraced houses. There are options. Until you try to explore one, you may not know what is available for you. 

And, no it is not a fact that the heat generated in rapid charging means that it is not advised to repeatedly rapid charge batteries. The original Nissan Leaf only had air cooled batteries. Repeated rapid charging on those just resulted in a lower charge speed, not battery damage. Almost all new EVs now have liquid cooled  batteries. In mine, if I tell the car I am on my way to a rapid charger, it will actually warm the batteries up to get them to the optimum temperature for rapid charging. Any excess heat is either cooled by the AC and radiator, or (in winter) sent to the cabin to warm the occupants.

I am not sure what your last paragraph means? Are you perhaps indicating that the VW ID3 does not achieve its WLTP range figures? If so, I would agree. In the same way that no car I have ever owned has achieved its WLTP or NEDS efficiency number. Does running the AC have an impact on range? Yes, maybe 2 miles in 200. 
how about in traffic? Yes, if I am stop start on the motorway, my 200 turns into about 240, and low speeds need less energy than high speeds.

cyberyacht replied on 04/07/2022 11:11

Posted on 04/07/2022 11:11

AFAICS the average battery is around 40Kw, so unless I'm missing something even these 22Kw chargers should do the job in 2-3 hours. 

I would imagine motorhomes would need batteries in the order of 100Kw at least and probably then even only would produce a range of maybe 200 miles. At 50p per Kw that would cost £50 to charge. I can currently get 500 miles for a tankful at £150, so a not dissimilar cost. The downside of a motorhome would be that apart from starting from home with a full charge, nearly all charging whilst travelling on holiday would be of the higher cost variety so no economies to be had there and a fair bit of sitting around waiting for it to charge up.

flatcoat replied on 04/07/2022 11:11

Posted on 04/07/2022 11:11

Chocolate trees, you need to come and drive around some typical northern residential areas and tell me how the average resident will manage with an EV, assuming they ever become available at £2-3k. Cutting gullies in the pavement is not the issue or the answer (apart from the practicalities which are dubious). There are lots of houses in the village where I live where it is not possible to park outside the house. The one size fits all EV solution is typical of political statist controllers who have swallowed guff from equally out of touch civil servants who live in a parallel universe that starts and stops with the Guardian and BBC. 

brue replied on 04/07/2022 11:14

Posted on 04/07/2022 11:14

I think JVB is hoping to find all possible worst case scenarios based on misinformation but the truth is that places like Norway, for example, have very high rates of ev ownership and the cold weather and charging conundrums have not deterred ownership.  smile

Tinwheeler replied on 04/07/2022 11:42

Posted on 04/07/2022 11:42

With regards to range, mine has a max of 300 miles from its 64kw battery but I don't expect to achieve that any more than I expect to get the manufacturer's stated MPG figures from an ICE car.

However, with careful use of the regenerative braking system, I can often return from short local trips without having used any battery miles as I'm putting power back in the battery. It's currently giving 5.2 miles per kw locally.

ChocolateTrees replied on 04/07/2022 12:15

Posted on 04/07/2022 11:11 by cyberyacht

AFAICS the average battery is around 40Kw, so unless I'm missing something even these 22Kw chargers should do the job in 2-3 hours. 

I would imagine motorhomes would need batteries in the order of 100Kw at least and probably then even only would produce a range of maybe 200 miles. At 50p per Kw that would cost £50 to charge. I can currently get 500 miles for a tankful at £150, so a not dissimilar cost. The downside of a motorhome would be that apart from starting from home with a full charge, nearly all charging whilst travelling on holiday would be of the higher cost variety so no economies to be had there and a fair bit of sitting around waiting for it to charge up.

Posted on 04/07/2022 12:15

CY, battery sizes vary considerably, I would say the most common for new cars these days are in the range 60kWh to 80kWh, but it really depends on the car, just like fuel tank size does. My Polestar 78kWh (75 usable), Fiat 500E, 42kWh (37.3 usable). Most cars can't accept 22kW (three phase 32A) as a charge rate, but top out at 7kW (single phase 32K) or 11kW (three phase 16A) . On the DC side (25kW to 350kW), again the car is general the limiting factor. My Polestar; 155kW, my Fiat 500; 85kW.

I think your assessment on a motorhome (100kWh or more battery) is probably accurate. I would hope for around 200 miles range, or perhaps a little more, so yes, costs on the road will be very similar.

With a 100kWh battery, I would also hope for very high max charging rates on DC, but thats not always guaranteed (See Ford's weird decision to limit the Mach-E to 107kW on a 97kWh battery). Kia and Hyundai are doing good things here with maximum charge rates of 233kW. Same with Tesla at 250kW. 

 

Rocky 2 buckets replied on 04/07/2022 12:37

Posted on 04/07/2022 11:42 by Tinwheeler

With regards to range, mine has a max of 300 miles from its 64kw battery but I don't expect to achieve that any more than I expect to get the manufacturer's stated MPG figures from an ICE car.

However, with careful use of the regenerative braking system, I can often return from short local trips without having used any battery miles as I'm putting power back in the battery. It's currently giving 5.2 miles per kw locally.

Posted on 04/07/2022 12:37

+1, my ICE truck suggests 50mpg but I get 43mpg at best & I'm happy, no one actually drives in the test conditions🤷🏻‍♂️. 

ChocolateTrees replied on 04/07/2022 12:39

Posted on 04/07/2022 11:11 by flatcoat

Chocolate trees, you need to come and drive around some typical northern residential areas and tell me how the average resident will manage with an EV, assuming they ever become available at £2-3k. Cutting gullies in the pavement is not the issue or the answer (apart from the practicalities which are dubious). There are lots of houses in the village where I live where it is not possible to park outside the house. The one size fits all EV solution is typical of political statist controllers who have swallowed guff from equally out of touch civil servants who live in a parallel universe that starts and stops with the Guardian and BBC. 

Posted on 04/07/2022 12:39

Very well versed with the terraced housing in many (not just northern) towns and cities. Oxford has a large proportion of terraced housing without dedicated parking. They are finding solutions, including the very practical solution of cable gullies, promoted by Oxford council. https://www.goultralowoxford.org/info/5/chargers/13/chargers/3

I agree there is no "one size fits all". That is indeed my very point. Lots and lots of people are in a position to take advantage of the benefits of home charging. Around 1/3 of households in the UK don't have off-road parking. That means around 2/3rds do. 

For those that a solution is not yet available for, time will tell what the solutions will be. Cars will continue to come down in price, the second hand market will grow, as cars get older, their prices will drop too.

My experience related here is not born out of reading "guff" from the Guardian or BBC, any more than it is from the "guff" from the Daily Mail, Telegraph, Times or Sky. It's from my own personal lived experience of 5 years with a PHEV, over a year with an EV and 13 years of towing a caravan, 13 month of which is EV towing. 

I am really sorry if my lived experience presents a view that doesn't match your world view and clashes with the pre-concived stereotypes of EV usage that you seem to feel are the truth. Of course, your world is not mine, so maybe (probably) an EV is not right for you. Also fine. But there are a (rapidly growing) number of folks for whom it is viable, and maybe the hoppytravel, the OP, is one of those people. My aim is giving them some real pointers on what CAN be achieved, rather than regurgitating the falsehoods and myths based on zero real experience. 

Rocky 2 buckets replied on 04/07/2022 12:49

Posted on 04/07/2022 12:39 by ChocolateTrees

Very well versed with the terraced housing in many (not just northern) towns and cities. Oxford has a large proportion of terraced housing without dedicated parking. They are finding solutions, including the very practical solution of cable gullies, promoted by Oxford council. https://www.goultralowoxford.org/info/5/chargers/13/chargers/3

I agree there is no "one size fits all". That is indeed my very point. Lots and lots of people are in a position to take advantage of the benefits of home charging. Around 1/3 of households in the UK don't have off-road parking. That means around 2/3rds do. 

For those that a solution is not yet available for, time will tell what the solutions will be. Cars will continue to come down in price, the second hand market will grow, as cars get older, their prices will drop too.

My experience related here is not born out of reading "guff" from the Guardian or BBC, any more than it is from the "guff" from the Daily Mail, Telegraph, Times or Sky. It's from my own personal lived experience of 5 years with a PHEV, over a year with an EV and 13 years of towing a caravan, 13 month of which is EV towing. 

I am really sorry if my lived experience presents a view that doesn't match your world view and clashes with the pre-concived stereotypes of EV usage that you seem to feel are the truth. Of course, your world is not mine, so maybe (probably) an EV is not right for you. Also fine. But there are a (rapidly growing) number of folks for whom it is viable, and maybe the hoppytravel, the OP, is one of those people. My aim is giving them some real pointers on what CAN be achieved, rather than regurgitating the falsehoods and myths based on zero real experience. 

Posted on 04/07/2022 12:49

Don’t get disheartened ChocT, a lot of us(non EV owners) are open minded & prepping for the future of EV ownership so your real world experience is gold dust to us. You will never win over the intransigent but you can still share & help the rest of us. We appreciate you sharing your experience👍🏻

Metheven replied on 04/07/2022 13:01

Posted on 04/07/2022 13:01

Like 'Rocky' ChocT, I don't have an electric vehicle but my daughter and her partner own a fully electric fleet of taxis in Cornwall, so I have an inkling of knowledge on the subject.

Your knowledge is invaluable to all and your presentation of facts exemplary, keep on going 👍

It's new technology and evolving fast, problems today will be yesterdays news in a few years time.

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