Is EHU metering a good investment?

GEandGJE replied on 28/11/2022 17:23

Posted on 28/11/2022 17:23

I was going to post this in the thread that has been Deleted User as a number of folk were saying that EHU Metering would make pitch prices cheaper, so Let's play the You Said, We Listened and Implemented game. This is my view based on my experience as an IT Infrastructure Project Manager and in IT Procurement.  To satisfy the We don't want EHU and want cheaper pitch prices group of people, the We only want to pay for the electricity we use group of people and the I'll pay whatever as I'm on holiday group of people, the clubs only option is to move to metered usage. How does the club do that and what investment would be needed. Lets estimate that the club has over 10,000 pitches with an average of 2 hookups per bollard that's 5,000 bollards that will need to be modified and/or replaced and some of those will need groundwork undertaken for new cabling etc, it will require  putting all pitches out of action and subsequent loss of income whilst the work takes place. This can't all be done at once and I think that a 5 year rollout period would be a stretch and it would take a dedicated team at HQ to manage. They would need to procure equipment, electrical installation teams, groundwork teams, IT systems and software to operate the metering and payments, negotiate contracts with all the power companies who supply the club sites and negotiate with any land owners. I don't think you would get much change from a £5 million investment of the clubs (our) money. Issues that the club would need to consider 1) leased sites where the land owner doesn't give permission for the work to be carried out or the lease will soon come to an end 2) the price per kW from each of the power suppliers will vary depending on contract length and renewal dates, so do they average that price out across all sites or do you have different EHU costs in different areas of the network 3) do you factor the suppliers standing charge into the  metered cost,  4) the club would need to move to a credit card only payment system where the payment for EUH used is automatically deducted at the end of your stay 5) a central dispute resolution team, as there will always be people who will challenge the bill and that shouldn't be the on site teams and finally the biggest question for the club, 6) what return on investment will the club get. I doubt very much that the savings made from the electricity used would come close to the investment needed therefore the remaining investment would need to come from reserves and most likely recouped from increased pitch prices. Lastly this would give the club a very inconsistent offering with not all sites offering metered EUH, the cost of EHU could vary from site to site and an even bigger price variance across the network. Not a very good Business Case in my view, in terms of both investment and inconvenience to the membership so I can't see it happening I'm afraid.

Tinwheeler replied on 06/12/2022 09:42

Posted on 06/12/2022 09:20 by cyberyacht

Heat pumps/solar panels should be a standard upgrade if CAMC are serious about consumption. A ban on awning heaters at all times seems an obvious energy saver. I will now await the howls of protest.

Posted on 06/12/2022 09:42

How about a ban on overnight heating in vans, a ban on gas guzzling MHs and cars etc etc? Why not just stay home and save it all rather than suggest unenforceable ways to curtail folks' enjoyment of their holidays?

Metering is a realistic option, telling people how to use energy is not.

Cornersteady replied on 06/12/2022 09:48

Posted on 06/12/2022 09:20 by cyberyacht

Heat pumps/solar panels should be a standard upgrade if CAMC are serious about consumption. A ban on awning heaters at all times seems an obvious energy saver. I will now await the howls of protest.

Posted on 06/12/2022 09:48

You've asked this before about solar panels and a fair number answered to say they already exist on club sites.

brue replied on 06/12/2022 09:50

Posted on 06/12/2022 09:50

The club has been "requesting" folks to consider their on site energy use in recent years. Some will no doubt consider this and others won't.

young thomas replied on 06/12/2022 10:09

Posted on 06/12/2022 09:50 by brue

The club has been "requesting" folks to consider their on site energy use in recent years. Some will no doubt consider this and others won't.

Posted on 06/12/2022 10:09

Agreed Brue, but if the club are going to 'work with' members then the Club has to show that's it is serious about reducing overall costs and how customers (I must be the only person who uses this word on CT, perhaps that's what the club doesn't treat them as such?) as well as the club can benefit from the gains made.

it can't just be a one way street....or can it😉

Tinwheeler replied on 06/12/2022 10:14

Posted on 06/12/2022 09:50 by brue

The club has been "requesting" folks to consider their on site energy use in recent years. Some will no doubt consider this and others won't.

Posted on 06/12/2022 10:14

It's absolutely a reasonable request but a request is very different from the autocratic banning suggested by CY. 

Tinwheeler replied on 06/12/2022 10:17

Posted on 06/12/2022 09:38 by Rocky 2 buckets

Heat pumps?, the jury is out on that one-plus it’s very costly initially🤷🏻‍♂️

Posted on 06/12/2022 10:17

I missed this post earlier. There is a lot of work going on with heat pumps in this area, Rocky, and they are proving to be far from efficient and very noisy. That'll go down well on club sites😄

ChocolateTrees replied on 06/12/2022 10:24

Posted on 06/12/2022 09:38 by Rocky 2 buckets

Heat pumps?, the jury is out on that one-plus it’s very costly initially🤷🏻‍♂️

Posted on 06/12/2022 10:24

Depends what you mean by the "jury is out". A heat pump us unequivocally the most efficient way to bring heat into a space, producing around 3x the heat energy for the electrical energy used. But they are costly to install, and do have different characteristics to conventional boilers that can make them unsuitable for direct replacement in some situations. 

A gas condensing boiler is at best 90% efficient when run in condensing mode, which gas a lower maximum heat output than in non-condensing mode (which may be more like 70% efficient). 

If a newbuild is on the cards then a heatpump, with well sized south facing solar PV, a battery and decent insulation will be very hard to beat from an efficiency and economy PoV over its lifetime. 

ChocolateTrees replied on 06/12/2022 11:50

Posted on 06/12/2022 11:22 by Cornersteady

How expensive are heat pumps? for an average home and for a place like a caravan site?

Totally ignorant on these.

Posted on 06/12/2022 11:50

Not cheap. I believe a home grade unit may be of the order £10K to £20K installed. Of course they come in different sizes and powers, with different install costs, but are more than a condensing boiler of the same output. 

Very much a long term investment. 

Rocky 2 buckets replied on 06/12/2022 12:00

Posted on 06/12/2022 09:42 by Tinwheeler

How about a ban on overnight heating in vans, a ban on gas guzzling MHs and cars etc etc? Why not just stay home and save it all rather than suggest unenforceable ways to curtail folks' enjoyment of their holidays?

Metering is a realistic option, telling people how to use energy is not.

Posted on 06/12/2022 12:00

If one suffers we all suffer-nice one Tinster your sense of fairness does you credit👍🏻👏🏻👏🏻

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