Is EHU metering a good investment?

GEandGJE replied on 28/11/2022 17:23

GEandGJE

Posted on 28/11/2022 17:23

I was going to post this in the thread that has been Deleted User as a number of folk were saying that EHU Metering would make pitch prices cheaper, so Let's play the You Said, We Listened and Implemented game. This is my view based on my experience as an IT Infrastructure Project Manager and in IT Procurement. To satisfy the We don't want EHU and want cheaper pitch prices group of people, the We only want to pay for the electricity we use group of people and the I'll pay whatever as I'm on holiday group of people, the clubs only option is to move to metered usage. How does the club do that and what investment would be needed. Lets estimate that the club has over 10,000 pitches with an average of 2 hookups per bollard that's 5,000 bollards that will need to be modified and/or replaced and some of those will need groundwork undertaken for new cabling etc, it will require putting all pitches out of action and subsequent loss of income whilst the work takes place. This can't all be done at once and I think that a 5 year rollout period would be a stretch and it would take a dedicated team at HQ to manage. They would need to procure equipment, electrical installation teams, groundwork teams, IT systems and software to operate the metering and payments, negotiate contracts with all the power companies who supply the club sites and negotiate with any land owners. I don't think you would get much change from a £5 million investment of the clubs (our) money. Issues that the club would need to consider 1) leased sites where the land owner doesn't give permission for the work to be carried out or the lease will soon come to an end 2) the price per kW from each of the power suppliers will vary depending on contract length and renewal dates, so do they average that price out across all sites or do you have different EHU costs in different areas of the network 3) do you factor the suppliers standing charge into the metered cost, 4) the club would need to move to a credit card only payment system where the payment for EUH used is automatically deducted at the end of your stay 5) a central dispute resolution team, as there will always be people who will challenge the bill and that shouldn't be the on site teams and finally the biggest question for the club, 6) what return on investment will the club get. I doubt very much that the savings made from the electricity used would come close to the investment needed therefore the remaining investment would need to come from reserves and most likely recouped from increased pitch prices. Lastly this would give the club a very inconsistent offering with not all sites offering metered EUH, the cost of EHU could vary from site to site and an even bigger price variance across the network. Not a very good Business Case in my view, in terms of both investment and inconvenience to the membership so I can't see it happening I'm afraid.

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Cornersteady replied on 30/11/2022 15:33

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Posted on 30/11/2022 13:26 by peedee

I am sure there will be some who will find metering an inconvenience, they are the ones who probably are big users and are subsidised by the more frugal users.

Are those that would benefit most in the minority, who knows? I can only surmise that with the increase in motorhome membership and with it, short stays and off site trips, it is unlikely to be a minority.

The price of energy is a red herring, regardless of price, it is still a fairer system and offers the Club better control over pitch prices.

peedee

Posted on 30/11/2022 15:33

Not at all. There are people who have posted saying that even though they'll use less than the inclusive price they will prefer to pay the extra rather than have the hassle of metering.

You've mentioned this before, about frugal users subsiding others but is it true? Perhaps there are people who use much less than you, are you the judge of what is fair, what is frugal?

I think, actually have good grounds for thinking that with the large numbers involved the spread around the 'average' will be quite small, and even if there was an large user (and remember there is a max of 16A) it won't affect the average significantly, think about it with say a thousand users that large value is divided by one thousand for the mean. Look at the central limit theorem for more details if you want.

But again if the club's system that you think is unfair then why continue to use it? You've just keeping it going. If everyone who thought like you used sites with meters the club would follow suit?

Cornersteady replied on 30/11/2022 15:36

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Posted on 30/11/2022 12:36 by KjellNN

What you use is bound to vary with the age of your van, what equipment you have in your van, how cold it is outside, whether or not you use gas for some purposes, and how much you make use of site facilities, if indeed there are any.

Our van is a 2008 model, so predates the improved insulation that came in in , I think, 2009. We have Alde heating, but only the 2kw version. To warm the van in colder weather we use gas initially on the Alde, plus a small electric fan heater for instant heat. It needs 2kw on the Alde to keep the van warm due to the poorer insulation.

We do not usually go away between the end of October and the middle of March, but one time we did, and it was very cold, we used 40kWh in 24 hours, the fridge/freezer uses 4 and the rest went on cooking, HW and heating.

While away at warmer times we would use 10-12 kWh unless we switch to gas for HW and heating as we always wash up in the van, and mainly use our own shower etc.

As we have refillable gas bottles, gas is generally cheaper to use than electricity when electricity is expensive and metered.

Corners........if you get a van with the Alde system, make sure it has, or you add, the load monitor. This will automatically cut down or off what the Alde uses if you turn on too many other things, you just set it to however many amps are available on your pitch.

Posted on 30/11/2022 15:36

Thanks Kj

replied on 30/11/2022 15:50

Posted on 30/11/2022 13:26 by peedee

I am sure there will be some who will find metering an inconvenience, they are the ones who probably are big users and are subsidised by the more frugal users.

Are those that would benefit most in the minority, who knows? I can only surmise that with the increase in motorhome membership and with it, short stays and off site trips, it is unlikely to be a minority.

The price of energy is a red herring, regardless of price, it is still a fairer system and offers the Club better control over pitch prices.

peedee

Posted on 30/11/2022 15:50

The user and all related content has been Deleted User

JVB66 replied on 30/11/2022 15:56

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Posted on 30/11/2022 15:50 by

We are frugal users, we run a fridge ,cook and charge a few batteries and watch an hours tv . We wash ourselves and dishes at the facilities that we have paid for. That we can spend several weeks on a 4 amp site shows how little we use.

Yes I do find it an inconvenience and not one we should be subjected to for the benefit of others who think they should benefit from it.

Posted on 30/11/2022 15:56

Thats interesting doing the dishes while the two of you have a wash ,no wonder you tend to use the same site

replied on 30/11/2022 15:58

Posted on 30/11/2022 15:56 by JVB66

Thats interesting doing the dishes while the two of you have a wash ,no wonder you tend to use the same site

Posted on 30/11/2022 15:58

The user and all related content has been Deleted User

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ChocolateTrees replied on 30/11/2022 17:31

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Posted on 30/11/2022 17:31

I would like to have meters, not because I use less, but because I would like to use more, and would want to pay for it.

We stayed on a CL over the plattyjubes weekend who had just introduced meters. They were giving 10kWh per day included with the pitch fee, and then charging at their current rate for excess. We had stated before we went that we would potentially charge the car, but in the end didn't have a need to.

As it was, we were well under the 10kWh per day used (which is quite a lot for 2 in a 2016 Vigo with Alde heating).

Having a meter would allow the option to charge the car knowing how much I would spend and how competitive that rate might be. The current option of a flat fee means that I have to have the battery at a level "just so" to both have time to charge and ensure the cost is reasonable (sensible). It was also remove any concern over the illegality of charging (money) over the MRP cap (a topic in another thread).

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young thomas replied on 30/11/2022 18:14

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young thomas

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Posted on 30/11/2022 12:29 by Cornersteady

Benefits but not a return on any money spent.

But as you won't be using club sites why Keep worrying, let those that do perhaps make the decisions?

Posted on 30/11/2022 18:14

I'm neither 'worrying' nor making the decisions. I'm merely taking part in a discussion on a members forum, as I told you earlier, if you recall.

you seem to be far more 'worried' than anyone else, taking it upon yourself to defend every post made.

As PD points out, the club has already made the money to invest in sites. Metering might be one of those investments and may contribute to folk continuing to use sites...that's a real benefit.

If the club continues to price its pitches 'inclusive of electricity' those headline prices will accelerate faster than if it were disconnected, leaving customers to 'worry' about whether those prices remain within their reach.

personally, I think a better idea is to just have a simple yes or no to taking a hookup as it costs nothing and satisfies two of the three member 'groups' mentioned upthread, and hopefully leaving you 'unworried' about the money your club might consider spending. Win, win?

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Cornersteady replied on 30/11/2022 18:37

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Posted on 30/11/2022 18:14 by young thomas

I'm neither 'worrying' nor making the decisions. I'm merely taking part in a discussion on a members forum, as I told you earlier, if you recall.

you seem to be far more 'worried' than anyone else, taking it upon yourself to defend every post made.

As PD points out, the club has already made the money to invest in sites. Metering might be one of those investments and may contribute to folk continuing to use sites...that's a real benefit.

If the club continues to price its pitches 'inclusive of electricity' those headline prices will accelerate faster than if it were disconnected, leaving customers to 'worry' about whether those prices remain within their reach.

personally, I think a better idea is to just have a simple yes or no to taking a hookup as it costs nothing and satisfies two of the three member 'groups' mentioned upthread, and hopefully leaving you 'unworried' about the money your club might consider spending. Win, win?

Posted on 30/11/2022 18:37

Well I'm not worried as I've booked up for a year ahead but sorry you really do appear to be as it's a post every day saying what the club should be doing regarding meters and prices and using phrases that show you are (see below) but if as you say you're not going to be using sites it won't affect you? I would leave it to those who do but discuss away.

Sorry what exactly am I defending? Or it is the case that you discuss but when I discuss back you call it defending? Do I say that about your post?

At least PD's post about the club's finances will reassure you that the club isn't as you've written over the few days, either paired to bone, stretched, or having the last nail put in it's coffin.

I've agreed with you about the EHU if you recall.

Prices will go up but if they appear not to give value go elsewhere. You often post about better cheaper sites and if you name them people who worry that club sites are beyond their reach thy will able to use them?

Going back to the OP, there are benefits as you posted but are the worth paying £3m plus for?

young thomas replied on 30/11/2022 18:49

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young thomas

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Posted on 30/11/2022 18:49

I'll certainly carry on posting, that's not your gift to give😉

I actually said I thought the relationship with its members was being stretched and i still think that despite your repeated reassurances to the contrary

believe it or not I can make my own mind up over value of campsites without your valued assistance and I'll act on my own decisions as I've always done.

...but thanks for 'worrying' about me😉

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