New CL: fantasy price

Again, somewhat interesting. It would seem that there is a huge variation in what CLs are asked to do. Not sure how long your CL has been operating HBHF, but we have stayed on some long established (30/40 year old CLs) that don't have such requirements. In fact one or two are basic fields, well kept and mown, but with just a tap, a cdp point and a bin for waste. I wonder if down the years, the Club's set up advice has changed? I know the older CLs are still inspected, so the Club obviously have no problems with them. Owners are a mix of farmers and elderly persons utilising big gardens or meadows.

I think new CL’s are asked to do a lot more and it varies from inspector to inspector. Another request for us was a 12m gap between caravans, however we have stayed on a number of older CL’s where this would be totally impractical.  

Sarah

Thanks for that. Seems an unlevel playing field for both potential CLs, existing CLs and visitors to a certain extent. Those differences could make or break the setting up of a CL, which of course impacts on making somewhere a viable proposition for the owners, and providing a new CL for users. Perhaps gives a bit more insight into why some are closing as well. I can understand the Club giving a bit more guidance/helpful suggestions to owners and those wanting to set up nowadays, but what that entails seems a tad dependant on the inspectors! Safety standards are paramount, but aesthetics ought to be more in the hands of the owners, as to what they can viably afford, especially for set up early period. Thank you for that insight, much appreciated.

if i was going to pay £20 a night I would just stay on a club site. In mid or low season it's not much difference.

we have stayed on two cls with ehu and toilets . We don't take advantage of ehu like many do these days . The same with toilets & shower  Use once then use the van . 

some seem to add on for extras now as well. I don't think you should pay more for awnings .  

I like the quite of cls in high season . As well as saving on high prices. 

I think new CL’s are asked to do a lot more and it varies from inspector to inspector. Another request for us was a 12m gap between caravans, however we have stayed on a number of older CL’s where this would be totally impractical.  

Sarah

We stayed on a new CL a few weeks ago, talking to the owner We were surprised at how much the CC inspector had said they needed to do, all of which must have added quite a lot of additional cost.

Which means they must charge higher prices to you and me reducing the differential between club sites and CL's.

Good job I don't go in for conspiracy theories.

By the way I am not going to become involved in the club management because I have had quite enough of management during my working life.

We also have a nominated representative who ( I hope) is there to represent the views of all club members.

All the nominated people are hopefully there to represent us but I expect questions are very limited at the AGM. I think supporting the regional meetings would give some of us the opportunity to put forward our different views. Whether any of us actually turn up and go to these meetings is a consideration?

I agree with that brue

Well, what a great debate! And some useful information as well.

Thank you Fysherman for your reasoned and useful reply regarding the fact that THS's can - at some points during the season - compete with CL's on price. I didn't know that they had risen in popularity and could legitimately be perceived as a commercial Threat to CL's, but it's useful info. I dare say that some CL's may 'feel the pinch' from a local THS and might be advised to adjust their pricing - if they want to compete with them - while the local THS is in operation. Simple demand & supply.

In terms of 'listening to the market’ on price I use a number of sources; CT, visitors to my own site, opinions from other CL owners and the Club’s own Market Research. Clearly there are a number of people on CT that argue strongly for ‘simple sites at less than £10’. These proponents are very vocal. Others on CT realise that CL’s - whatever their facilities - have a number of overheads (greater overheads than a THS I’d guess). A ‘Thank You’ to oakapple for working out some figures for running a CL and realising they are over £8/night to break even.

Here at Cholsey Grange, our occupancy and repeat business is high so I believe we have our pricing about right. However I accept that we are self-selecting opinions from visitors who are prepared to pay our 'top of the market’ rates for our exceptional location. We therefore probably don’t meet many visitors who would like to pay circa £10.

However, I take all the above with a large grain of salt, as the samples of these audiences are biased.

As someone who has been in the Market Research industry most of my life, I base the majority of my opinion on the exceptionally well researched studies that the Caravan Club does using professional market research agencies and following industry-standard methodologies. What their research concludes is that “CL’s are very highly rated for value for money by those using them. Nearly 60% of these rated them 9 out of 10 or 10 out of 10”

To try and address the issue of CL’s leaving the network, either because can’t make it pay, or because they want to make more money than their 5-van limit allows, I’m working actively to try and support the Club Management team with ideas that will provide CL owners with guidance on a wide range of issues such as; reducing the costs of running a CL (could the club help with insurance or buying electricity?) or on the other hand maximising the potential revenue by increasing occupancy through better marketing, special price offers, or installing low-cost but high value facilities such as WiFi. etc. Of course those are not the sole reason CL’s leave, some might not have had their certificate renewed due to breaking the 5 Van limit or they simply retire or sell their property and the new owners don’t take the CL forwards.

To date, the Club has not assisted CL’s with much practical advice (beyond the basics regarding certification) but I feel that if the network is to be maintained or expanded, it might need to invest more effort into the CL network. After all, the CL network is the reason 22% of members join the club. If a similar proportion of the Membership Fee was spent on supporting the CL network, I think it would be thriving rather than declining.

It would also appear that the Club Inspectors don’t necessarily sing from the same hmyn sheet in terms of requirements for access, fencing, spacing etc.etc. Again, this is something I’d like to work with the Club to address.

Fysherman - I’m sorry I didn’t reply earlier, but the CL itself or the farm it’s on doesn’t provide a sufficient income so, like most CL owners, I have to have a ‘day job. Hence my delay in responding to this debate! As I have said a number of times, do visit Cholsey Grange so that we can continue in more convivial surroundings, or come to the AGM in a few weeks.

VAT - As our farm is VAT registered, my accountant has reliably informed me that we have to charge VAT within our pricing for the CL. I’m not going to argue with my accountant (or HMRC) on that point! For visitors who request one, we provide a VAT receipt.

Thank you for your considered reply, it's much appreciated.

I hope you will consider the point that average prices are rising to be an issue and it would be helpful if the club could embark upon a drive to encourage new CL owners to try (at least initially)operating a CL without incurring infrastructure charges beyond those which are needed to comply with regulations. It is recognised that if attached to a farm and run through the farm books, VAT is unavoidable but of course not all are like that.

Again, thanks for your reply, I will give thought to to the points you have raised.

regards from the Fysh.