Are CLs really members only

Yes the CC could revoke the certificate if a CL allowed non-members and no they are probably not breaking any law but are certainly breaking club rules.

Alan

www.greenacrescl.co.uk

Yes the CC could revoke the certificate if a CL allowed non-members and no they are probably not breaking any law but are certainly breaking club rules.

Alan

www.greenacrescl.co.uk

...But thats not in the ethos of the way certificates are issued to the clubs ,as it specifically states on the Gov.Natural England site that who ever it is issued to must show proof of Members code of conduct

Natural England is the only organisation that can issue exemption certificates to Clubs/Organisations for recreational camping and they must be able to supply proof that their MEMBERS have a code of conduct that applys to their use of the sites 

Write your comments here...Whilst I don't have the exact information at my fingertips there must be other bodies in the United Kingdom regulating the ability of organisations to grant CL status. I say that in particular because Natural England have no presence or jurisdiction in Scotland which is a separate country with its own legal system and parliament albeit a constituent country within the United Kingdom of Great Britain and  Northern Ireland.

..but arent we 'discussing' the exemption certificates that the club(s) issue to CL/CS sites, which 'exempt' then from having to apply for planning permission to run a campsite.....provided that... 5 vans etc, etc.....and whether those organisations can insist on a members only policy?

natural england allows certain organisations to issue these 'exemptions' on their behalf....The CC and C&CC being two such organisations....along with MotorCaravannersClub etc

i am a member of all three of these and they all have members' codes of conduct, and all three only allow their members onto their sites....

so JVB, are you saying that the CC, who specifies in its issuing that only members of the CC can use 'exempted' sites, is going against the ethos of natural england, which i guess is more along the lines of 'access to all'....or whatever the wording is..or that some clubs who have this 'right' dont have a code of conduct?

in which case, wouldnt NE have found this during due diligence?

..but arent we 'discussing' the exemption certificates that the club(s) issue to CL/CS sites, which 'exempt' then from having to apply for planning permission to run a campsite.....provided that... 5 vans etc, etc.....and whether those organisations can insist on a members only policy?

natural england allows certain organisations to issue these 'exemptions' on their behalf....The CC and C&CC being two such organisations....along with MotorCaravannersClub etc

i am a member of all three of these and they all have members' codes of conduct, and all three only allow their members onto their sites....

so JVB, are you saying that the CC, who specifies in its issuing that only members of the CC can use 'exempted' sites, is going against the ethos of natural england, which i guess is more along the lines of 'access to all'....or whatever the wording is..or that some clubs who have this 'right' dont have a code of conduct?

in which case, wouldnt NE have found this during due diligence?

Write your comments here...I think as usual you have come to your own conclusion without reading the said document that,clearly states that they are issued to organisations that have a code of conduct for their Members !!

..but arent we 'discussing' the exemption certificates that the club(s) issue to CL/CS sites, which 'exempt' then from having to apply for planning permission to run a campsite.....provided that... 5 vans etc, etc.....and whether those organisations can insist on a members only policy?

natural england allows certain organisations to issue these 'exemptions' on their behalf....The CC and C&CC being two such organisations....along with MotorCaravannersClub etc

i am a member of all three of these and they all have members' codes of conduct, and all three only allow their members onto their sites....

so JVB, are you saying that the CC, who specifies in its issuing that only members of the CC can use 'exempted' sites, is going against the ethos of natural england, which i guess is more along the lines of 'access to all'....or whatever the wording is..or that some clubs who have this 'right' dont have a code of conduct?

in which case, wouldnt NE have found this during due diligence?

Write your comments here...I think as usual you have come to your own conclusion without reading the said document that,clearly states that they are issued to organisations that have a code of conduct for their Members !!

sorry JVB, dont want to get into semantics but i clearly said that the three organisations that i know of that issue these DO have members, DO have codes of conduct and DO only allow those members onto the sites.

while NE may well have a policy of only allowing organisations with a 'code of conduct for members', my question (and those of others earlier in the thread) remains....does NE insist that only members of these clubs be allowed or can CL type sites be used without being a member of one of the issuing organisations....?...or is this left to the issuing organisation?

the thread was about this issue, not whether NE does/not issue certification to those organosations who dont have a code of conduct.

they are two different issues....you brought up the 'code of conduct' issue without clarifying if it was this that contained any proviso regrading the members only policy. 

The matter is regulated in England by Schedule 5 Paragraph 4 of The Caravan Sites and Commercial Development Act 1960 which allows exempt organisations (such as the CC) to grant exemptions to the need to have full Planning permission etc. The criteria in the Act to become an exempt organisation seems modest and the matter is for "the Minister" to determine. There is absolutely no requirement in the Act for the site to be members only and indeed the gov website giving guidance states that non members can use the site if the owner and the licensor agree. So clearly the mechanism for stopping non members is CC policy ie. presumably CL owners not towing the party line run the risk of losing their exemption even though they have not broken the law . It would seem that the ethos in the original Act of relative freedom is not reflected by the "modern" CC and that over time (55 years) a considerable devolution of power from ministerial level has occurred. It is not difficult to see the commercial and protectionist reasons why that is the case and it is others to decide whether from the point of view of members it is good or bad. 

So in the spirit of good will, is not a good idea that so long as you belong to ..any of the three mentioned you will be allowed entry on to a cc/cs ect

BVM, thank you....a courteous and informative reply

The regulations that BVM refers to is for normal sites with  supervision (wardens) the regulatios covering cl/cs as ammended in 1960 only allows members of the club who applys to use them,some like the cc and c&cc have permanent cetificates others like owners clubs normally have to re apply every two years i think, and the same regs apply uk wide via each govenment