Practical towing experience using an EV.

Posted on 11/08/2021 15:00 by ChocolateTrees

And this works fine from my perspective. My only gripe with this model is its very expensive for full BEV cars. There is a limit to how much electricity can actually be consumed by a car, that is imposed by the connection via the 'van. As Proterra says, you really have to watch what is plugged in and how much you are drawing in order to not trip the bollard. I totally get being constrained to charging via the van to keep the site wide load at bay - and thats fine. I just object to the cost.

For PHEV, £2 per charge = 200p. At 20p per kWh = 10kwh, charging at a max of 10A (that all a standard 13A granny lead will pull) = 2.3Kw = 4.3 hours charging to consume the £2 fee with 10kWh. If electricity is 15p per kWh, that number goes up to 5.79 hours and 13kWh of juice. 

My PHEV only uses about 10Kw total, so I am happy that £2 covers costs and helps the club

However for a full BEV £8 charge the same maths works out at 40kWh and 17 hours for 20p/kWh or 53kWh and 23 hours at 2.3Kw charging. Basically you need your car plugged in all day at the maximum possible rate to get close using the payed amount. If you have any intention of using the car while on site it's just not achievable. 

To be clear - I don't object to paying and already offer CL owners payment for electricity used. Its the imbalance between PHEV and BEV that annoys me. 

Posted on 11/08/2021 15:57 by JVB66

Until, you can know what the club pays for their electricity, which will be higher than domestic rates you cannot know how the charges are worked out

And it is as many people say why should I reduce my usage when I have already paid in my pitch fee,   so at the prices that at the moment are probably expecting the same reaction, and it would not be every day the charge would need to be levied? Or are EVs more power hungry than we are led to believe

I think it was put into perspective when guy Martin took an EV on an even hundred mile journey to John O Groats , and used very High speed chargers , and it cost him about a third more than it would have with a diesel ice and took 27hrs with the time it took to keep charging the EV

Posted on 11/08/2021 16:46 by ChocolateTrees

This is true, though the average domestic price is 16p per kWh inc VAT. Presumably The club as a large user will pay a reasonable market rate, and don't pay VAT.  I am not at all averse to paying a premium over the clubs rate - I am averse to paying in a way that is not sensible for BEV. 

How frequently you need to charge is of course down to how much you use. If you plan to drive 150 to 200 miles every day you are on site, you may use all of the juice you can gather. For me - it totally depends on the site and the regional location. On some site the car may not move from one day to another or even for several days in a row. On others I may use a few miles every day.  My EV will up to 240ish miles on a single full charge if I drive sensibly. IF my driving is "spirited" it may be much less - just like with an ICE car. I would always want a full charge for the car to complete on the morning of departure for the journey home. 

Hmm - Mr Martin's program. As you may (or may not) have seen, two elements of his program have provoked pretty significant responses from both EV supporters and those who are not sold on the idea. - The J'O'G trip, and his closing statement.

On J'O'G His experience was poorly conceived and poorly executed. As posted else where on these forums, I recently did a 600+ mile holiday with the caravan in tow for over 400 of those miles for about £50 of electricity. I actually used the same ultra-rapid 350Kw Ionity charger brand that Guy used for two of my charging stops, with a total cost of £21 for 83kWh of electricty between the two, at 30p per kWh. That would have equated to £100 for 1200 miles _while towing for 800_ which would have still been £40 less than the diesel cost while solo!

Just a little bit of planning, not driving with a mega-heavy right foot and using some of the tools available would have yielded a different result. But - Who tries to drive 1100 miles in 24 hours in any normal world anyway?

His closing statement that EVs are only good for up to 50 miles from home... Well lets say that almost every EV driver would disagree.

Posted on 11/08/2021 17:12 by JVB66

You may have seen when I posted about one of our neighbours  who owns a 15reg Phev, it tends to only be used by his OH to take him and pick him up from the local station 2mileeach way, and local journeys it ,but as he says ,it now need charging more often although   annual mileages are near enough the same,  ,he as us ,live where we have no access to charge from the house ,unless he parks on a public green ,or finds a charging point? 

He has thought about changing his vehicle but says it is almost worthless as Px ,because of the age of the battery ,so he is resigned to keeping it

As he also says as most EVs are company or lease cars would anyone by a 3yr old car with no history of how it had been driven , unless it had a new battery

 PS guy Martins problems it seems complicated by trying to find chargers that were working or did what it says they are supposed to

Posted on 11/08/2021 17:38 by ChocolateTrees

I have a 66 plate PHEV along side my BEV. During lockdown almost all my mileage was EV only. I charge it every night to full, and sometimes (now I have the BEV) it sits for days. It still has full range. According to Auto-trader its still worth about 20K market rate... the battery is under warranty by Volvo for 8 years. I am considering PXing it not because its range is poor, but because I dont use its ICE. But I am not, because the EV part suits me very well as second car, and gives us options if the BEV is off doing something else. 

It may well be true that may EVs are company cars, and I sure that this year will see a huge boom in them. The idea of buying any 2nd hand car (EV or not) that is ex-lease will give some folks pause, but they have a service history like anything else, and a simple look at the mileage will tell you how it has been driven. EV batteries are proving to be far far more reliable than anyone thought with 1st gen Leafs have done over 100,000 miles and teslas used as taxis over 300,000 with only 5% battery degradation. Newer battery tech is even more robust and we are on 4th or 5th gen for most cars now with active cooling / heating systems that maintain the battery very very effectively. 

Guy's problem was he didn't do any planning. He didn't plan for the speed he was driving at. He didnt check that the 1st charger he stoped at was working (though he had zapmap) he went to the second charger very close to the first (why not go there first), but decided not to stay there (even though it was working and fast). He didn't sign up for a discount on the expensive fast charger (the 77p charger, I pay 30p on). He didnt look to see if the JoG charger was working before he relied on it. None of these things are hard. My car will tell me all of that direct from Google maps on the main screen. 

 

Posted on 11/08/2021 17:43 by JVB66

I do not need all that, I check where I am towing to and arrival times then set off with our sportage auto, that is my planning

Posted on 11/08/2021 17:55 by ChocolateTrees

Hmm - see thats not quite true. Do you check how much fuel you have before you leave? Do you decide if you want to fuel on route or not? Do you decide where to fuel prior to coming home? If the answer to those questions is "no" then I admit you are like no other caravan tower I have ever met, and you don't plan. 

You plan with an ICE, andin future because an EV is different, you would (I do) plan with that.
People don’t just drive their ICE car until they suddenly realise they have no fuel left and then panic stop with 10 mile or less range to go. They look at their gauge when they get in and have an internal conversation that goes “Can I get where I am going today without stopping for fuel? If I have to stop, where should I do it? And can I get home again? Should I stop on the way there when It might be less busy or on the way back when I have more time? If I don’t need to fill today, will I need to tomorrow? Should I fill today, rather than tomorrow as the place I am going tomorrow has no fuel, or at least it’s expensive? Can I wait until the day after and fuel at the supermarket?” Etc. That is called planning. We all did it in an ICE, however subconsciously, and now, because EVs are new (to some people) they have to consciously plan, which is harder because they have not had to do it in a long time, and the parameters are unfamiliar and different.

Posted on 11/08/2021 18:48 by JVB66

Why plan to pick up fuel? I usually pick up fuel on the way to storage if needed, and my tank will, take me to my next site we are stopping at,and more never had any problem if out for the day and may need fuel just pull in for five minutes and fill up

Posted on 11/08/2021 18:52 by Tinwheeler

Yep, that’s planning👍🏻

Posted on 11/08/2021 17:55 by ChocolateTrees

Hmm - see thats not quite true. Do you check how much fuel you have before you leave? Do you decide if you want to fuel on route or not? Do you decide where to fuel prior to coming home? If the answer to those questions is "no" then I admit you are like no other caravan tower I have ever met, and you don't plan. 

You plan with an ICE, andin future because an EV is different, you would (I do) plan with that.
People don’t just drive their ICE car until they suddenly realise they have no fuel left and then panic stop with 10 mile or less range to go. They look at their gauge when they get in and have an internal conversation that goes “Can I get where I am going today without stopping for fuel? If I have to stop, where should I do it? And can I get home again? Should I stop on the way there when It might be less busy or on the way back when I have more time? If I don’t need to fill today, will I need to tomorrow? Should I fill today, rather than tomorrow as the place I am going tomorrow has no fuel, or at least it’s expensive? Can I wait until the day after and fuel at the supermarket?” Etc. That is called planning. We all did it in an ICE, however subconsciously, and now, because EVs are new (to some people) they have to consciously plan, which is harder because they have not had to do it in a long time, and the parameters are unfamiliar and different.