Noseweight advice

DaveAldi replied on 22/10/2017 12:38

Posted on 22/10/2017 12:38

I tow a 2013 Coachman Pastiche 560/4 with a MTPLM of 1630kgs. I've recently changed my towcar from a Hyundai Santa Fe (Kerbweight 1977kgs and max noseweight 100kgs) to a Skoda Kodiaq Edition 4x4 (Kerbweight 1798kgs and max noseweight 80kgs). Considering the Kodiaq is the current towcar of the year I have been very disappointed with the towing stability of my outfit and despite careful loading and checking of tyre pressures I've had a few episodes of snaking (between 50 and 60 mph in the absence of strong winds), including one event where the car's towing stability assist activated the ABS to bring it under control. The caravan is fitted with ATC and an Al-Ko stabiliser hitch.


I purchased a noseweight gauge and found that the noseweight of my Coachman when totally emptied for winter (apart from two standard gas bottles in the front locker) was over 100kgs.


Please can anyone offer advice, firstly on whether I'm expecting too much of my towcar at a 90% match (bearing in mind I have 30 years towing experience) and secondly whether it's normal to have to remove gas bottles and add "ballast" behind the axle of an empty caravan to reduce the noseweight to an acceptable level. If I remove the gas bottles from the front locker, where is the safest place to carry them?


Thanks in advance to anyone with useful advice.

 

Lutz replied on 07/11/2017 08:58

Posted on 07/11/2017 08:58

Noseweight decreases with increasing speed because the exposed frontal area of the caravan above the roof of the towing vehicle is so much higher than its axle, resulting in quite a significant moment about the axle caused by aerodynamic drag.

Noseweight will also change instantaneously if the caravan pitches at all.

Noseweight will also reduce slightly if the towball is raised. That is why it is important to compensate for this reduction by setting the noseweight with the hitch at the same height as when the caravan is attached to the car. However, if that is done, it doesn't matter how high or low the towball is. There is no reason why it should.

Cornersteady replied on 07/11/2017 11:23

Posted on 07/11/2017 11:23

followed that up to:

That is why it is important to compensate for this reduction by setting the noseweight with the hitch at the same height as when the caravan is attached to the car.

what do you mean?

Cornersteady replied on 07/11/2017 11:47

Posted on 07/11/2017 08:58 by Lutz

Noseweight decreases with increasing speed because the exposed frontal area of the caravan above the roof of the towing vehicle is so much higher than its axle, resulting in quite a significant moment about the axle caused by aerodynamic drag.

Noseweight will also change instantaneously if the caravan pitches at all.

Noseweight will also reduce slightly if the towball is raised. That is why it is important to compensate for this reduction by setting the noseweight with the hitch at the same height as when the caravan is attached to the car. However, if that is done, it doesn't matter how high or low the towball is. There is no reason why it should.

Posted on 07/11/2017 11:47

actually just been thinking about that and I think you are confusing the weight on the car with actual nose weight? Yes the caravan will pitch the hitch upwards and pull the tow ball upwards therefore 'appearing' to make the weight on the rear car axle less, it could even lift the rear car tyres off the ground   but the actual nose weight (vertical force acting on the hitch) hasn't really changed has it? It is just supported by different means. I think you mean the effect of the nose weight changes not the actual weight (force)

maybe I think too 'pure' for you engineers smile 

lornalou1 replied on 07/11/2017 12:16

Posted on 02/11/2017 19:17 by Puddingsgalore

We have a Bailey Unicorn Valencia, we have tried the car & caravan match from this site and find it confusing and frustrating for a novice.  We have put in large 2L cars in the search and they all came back as not a match e.g. Insignia. It is unfortunate that we have to Change our suitable car and feel under pressure to find a legal towing car. How do I calculate and where do we find the information.  Ps car dealers don't seem to have a clue either!!

 

Posted on 07/11/2017 12:16

its not the size of the engine, its the weight of the whole car that counts. engine size just make the whole towing thing easier and less strain on engine and running gear.

Lutz replied on 07/11/2017 12:37

Posted on 07/11/2017 11:47 by Cornersteady

actually just been thinking about that and I think you are confusing the weight on the car with actual nose weight? Yes the caravan will pitch the hitch upwards and pull the tow ball upwards therefore 'appearing' to make the weight on the rear car axle less, it could even lift the rear car tyres off the ground   but the actual nose weight (vertical force acting on the hitch) hasn't really changed has it? It is just supported by different means. I think you mean the effect of the nose weight changes not the actual weight (force)

maybe I think too 'pure' for you engineers smile 

Posted on 07/11/2017 12:37

The static noseweight, if that is what you mean by actual noseweight, only changes (decreases) as the hitch is raised and increases as the hitch is lowered, but what I was referring to were dynamic changes which most definitely affect the forces going through the hitch and towball.

Lutz replied on 07/11/2017 12:43

Posted on 07/11/2017 11:23 by Cornersteady

followed that up to:

That is why it is important to compensate for this reduction by setting the noseweight with the hitch at the same height as when the caravan is attached to the car.

what do you mean?

Posted on 07/11/2017 12:43

Noseweight reduces as the hitch is raised and increases as the hitch is lowered, so in order to return to the desired noseweight when towing one would have to compensate for the said reduction or increase, as the case may be.

In other words, it would be incorrect to set the noseweight with the caravan level if it is not also level when hitched to the car.

Cornersteady replied on 07/11/2017 15:57

Posted on 07/11/2017 15:57

but what change are we talking about here? I have no measurements but the hitch could pivot say a max of 5 degrees either way? On a say 4m pivot to the CoM that reduces the horizontal distance to the vertical nose weight force by about 8cm? Not a great effect on the moment causing the nose weight in the first place? 

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