Going Greener

It's simple economics and psychology.  If something is seen as being free or included in a cost then it is perceived as having no value.   Just watch people pile their plates in an all you eat buffet or drink themselves silly at a free bar.  If they are charged then behaviour changes.  If you are being charged by use it simply concentrates the mind.  You may want the van to be heated to the same temperature when your are in it, but if you are paying for it you are much more likely to switch it off when you go out for the day.

This thread isn't about fairness it was about going greener and pricing is one highly effective way of modelling people's behaviour.  It is also very unpopular, just listen to the howls whenever metering is mentioned.  But there are only howls because people know that it's going to cost them money unless they change there behaviour.

This thread isn't about fairness it was about going greener and pricing is one highly effective way of modelling people's behaviour. It is also very unpopular, just listen to the howls whenever metering is mentioned. But there are only howls because people know that it's going to cost them money unless they change there behaviour.

We seem to agree Boff. As you say the thread is about going greener. People will almost certainly cut down on electricity use if it was metered, I might, it just depends on cost. However, I would not wish to change my comfort levels, so in my case it could mean a switch to gas, if there was a cost saving. The net result for me would be that I was less green, as none of the extra gas I would use comes from renewables.

Now perhaps if they start harnessing all that spare methane from cows and we could burn it, as a few farms do. Although you are still burning a gas. Electricity is and should become even more greener than gas. So is minimising its use and switching to pure fossil fuel greener?

Loving this thread 😃 and the how to thrive without EHU. This is where the club so be prompting manufacturers, together with decent article in the magazine THAT DON'T SHOW really old school photos of non EHU from the last century,  as was featured the last time they broached the subject!

I do hope your letter does not just a reading ( I read on a thread recently,  can't remember the subject annoyingly, where the instigator had a reply saying they were inundatuated with material for the magazine and would hold it on file in case it could be incorporated at a later date). Nearly fell off my chair laughing 😂

With the weather we have at present our battery is constantly full, although I confess we have EHU but that's because of the location of the site. So many things to weigh up when booking but location is often king 😉

Never quite sure about the Greeness of caravanning.  Just come back from Holiday.  Which consisted of, 13 nights off ehu and 5 nights on. If we discount the nights on ehu because the gas use will be minimal. Then we used appromately 15kg of gas, or about 30litres. 

However this holiday we stayed local, and did 750 miles only It that time.  If I assume that my Gas guzzler does about 25mpg. Then that's 30 gallons of fuel.  If we assume that 1 gallon = 5L ( yes all the numbers are approximate ) That's 150L.  Which makes the Carbon footprint of living in the van trivial compared to getting the van to site.  Often we go abroad and have done close to 3000 miles on a summer holiday, maybe we should all stay at home?

SteveL Completely unrealated to greeness or otherwise.  To maintain my comfort levels either extremely hot or extremely cold, I will resort to gas even when I have ehu, because both heating and cooling work better on gas. 

Thanks for all these great comments.  We've built ourselves such an edifice of fossil fuel dependency that the choices are hard now, and I'm under-informed and confused by much of it! Just hoping to take the steps I can, and learning more here is helpful.

Maybe the metering thing depends on whether you're helping people go greener, or pushing them. If I'm using EHU I'd prefer it to be metered, as it focusses the mind. In the same way, at home we have solar panels on the roof, and try to use household machinery when the sun's doing its bit, partly to save money, partly to save using fossil fuels, and we've chosen to sign up to a generation company which produces lots of non-fossil fuel even though it's not necessarily the cheapest. But that's our choice. There's a depressing number of people who still don't get it, and think it's all a waste of time.

I've been thinking likewise that refillable gas is great, and I'm very tempted purely for economy, but just as you say, it is still fossil fuel. 

  Meanwhile I just found this http://blogs.edf.org/climatetalks/2011/03/14/picturing-low-carbon-development-methane-cook-stoves-in-rural-india/ Way ahead of us! I somehow can't see CMC sites accepting methane digesting plants just yet, but it shows it can be done, and presumably could be bottled.

Bakers2 - yes, what you say!

Methane is a much worse greenhouse gas than Carbon dioxide, about 30x worse I believe.   So burning waste methane (ie not natural gas) and converting it to Carbon dioxide and water is perversely a way of reducing its greenhouse potential.

Thanks BB- you can always be relied on to post an accurate, educational and informative post. Thanks mate- that is very helpful.

This thread isn't about fairness it was about going greener and pricing is one highly effective way of modelling people's behaviour. It is also very unpopular, just listen to the howls whenever metering is mentioned. But there are only howls because people know that it's going to cost them money unless they change there behaviour.

Boff, how right you are! I'm afraid the waste in this country is quite frankly , appalling. Waste of food, waste of water, waste of energy. I love the fact that the non EHUers never howl- why would we? And where is the club on this issue? Nowhere! This charge is being made by just a few- a minute percentage of the membership (customers) . That just shows you where people's priorities are. Bakers, you make a very valid point. You have also noticed how the club plays non EHU down have you? The club should be doing so much more to educate, help and inform regarding the energy issues available today. I have, as you all know, phoned the editorial dept up twice to do a full and unbiased article and twice - let's face it, been ignored, and I'm sure they hope I don't ring again!! I have made myself unpopular with some for 'going on about it' but faint heart never won anything. Boff, this isn't about fairness you're right- and the 'club' isn't being fair when they refuse to cover modern non EHU! 

Yes composte bins are a feature/amenity we are thinking of introducing on our cl Site Resthaven Farm.  

How about the C&MC starting to use electric golf buggies (or something similar) instead of diesel tractors for collecting waste bins etc like they increasingly seem to be doing on the continent?

All in favour of compost areas on site but unsure whether they would be used by members but certainly worth a try.

We have started using compostable refuse sacks for our rubbish rather than pure plastic. They are more expensive and tend to be only the smaller sizes at the moment but surely the way forward.

More use of solar and geothermal on C&MC sites for shower blocks where practical.

Limit (Ban?) use of awning heaters??

Recycle rainwater for toilet flushing in toilet blocks.

Dry toilets as used at Crossways C&MC site. As far as I know this is the only club site that uses them, but not sure why, as they seem a good investment.

As stated by many, a good post and well worth keeping open for suggestions and hopefully the club will consider some suggestions and members will get ideas for their own 'greener holidays'.