New and need advice

Will Webb replied on 27/06/2018 17:40

Posted on 27/06/2018 17:40

Good afternoon all

First post since joining, so please go easy on me smile

Firstly I apologise in advance for all of the questions; I've been reading so many different articles that I'm starting to doubt myself and just want a general consensus from the masses.

My wife and I are looking to purchase our first caravan; a Coachman Amara 560/6 2008

Our tow car will be a 2017 Mini Countryman ALL4 John Cooper Works; so a petrol 4x4

  1. Am I right in thinking our car and van combination is a viable one?
    The Mini's chassis plate weights are 2130kg (Gross Vehicle/MTPLM), and 4005kg (Gross Train).  The manual states a max braked towing weight of 1800kg.
    The caravans weights are 1284kg (MRO), and 1500kg (MTPLM)
  2. Am I right in thinking that the above combination would exceed the 3500kg limit on my driving license?
  3. Am I also right in thinking that if the above is correct, then I would need to take the 'Trailer Test' in order to be able to tow?
  4. As I understand it I can tow a caravan over 750kg in weight, on my post-2003 driving license, providing the total train weight is less than 3500kg, and the Gross Train weight of the car (4005kg)?

Again, apologies for the questions - I've just got rather confused by the lingo and rules

Thanks

William

 

Ps; I have tried to contact the technical advice line this afternoon and it's been unavailable.  The online matching system also doesn't list the Mini, so that avenue has been fruitless...

Tinwheeler replied on 03/07/2018 13:03

Posted on 03/07/2018 13:03

Without knowing when you passed your test and what licence you hold it’s difficult to know what your driving/towing entitlement is. Check out this link -

https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/advice-and-training/advice-for-beginners/driving-licences/

To be perfectly honest your car and caravan combination doesn’t strike me as a viable one but you need to consider the kerb weight of the car, which isn’t stated above, and the all up weight (MTPLM) of the van. It’s not law but the recommendation is that your match should be around 85%. Therefore, as the van weighs 1500kg, you will need a tow car with a kerb weight around 1760kg. 

You will be in breach of the law with regard to the car's towing limits if you exceed the manufacturers stipulated max towing weight or the GTW. Be aware that the max towing weight of 1800kg will be a figure arrived at by the manufacturer in certain set conditions. It does not mean it is either safe or sensible to tow that weight on the road.

You also need to consider what nose weight the car's max is and the nose weight of the caravan.

The foregoing info all relates to the car and caravan combination and is nothing to do with your driving entitlement which is a separate issue and also needs to be complied with.

Hope that helps.

Extugger replied on 03/07/2018 13:57

Posted on 03/07/2018 13:57

Mini & Coachman

The towing limit is exceeded by 767 kg!
It is not allowed to drive with this Coachman.
Make sure the towing limit is correct.

The conclusion is, if the Mini Cooper Countryman - SD [ALL4]and the Coachman Amara 560/6with a laden weight of 1567 kg, would be legally too heavy that it would be not a good match 

This is from Towcar info. com

As TW intimated previously, you may be in breach of the law and for your own and everyone else's safety, please have a rethink 

 

jennyc replied on 03/07/2018 21:18

Posted on 03/07/2018 21:18

Ouch! Your Contryman sounds lovely with its Cooper Spec, and nearly new too. But I’m afraid that it’s not the tow car that you need for that weight of van. Think much smaller for your van, or much heavier for your car.

Waffler replied on 03/07/2018 22:29

Posted on 03/07/2018 22:29

Your licence means that the total maximum car weight and maximum caravan weight cannot be bigger than 3500lg.   The wording differ  between car manufacturers.  So find the biggest weight for the car, often max gross.(This will be on a plate in the car, possibly under the bonnet.) Take that from 3500 and then that is the MTPLM of the caravan you can have. The MTPLM will be on the plate by the door of the caravan.   Now find the kerb weight of the car- this definition varies, probably in the handbook or on the makers web site.  (If not try Honest John web site). Work out 85% of this. This figure is the recommended MTPLM of the caravan for safe towing. Two other figures to check- max tow weight of car and max tow ball weight. With all these numbers the rule is the lowest applies.  On tow ball weight  many caravans have a limit of 100 kg which often exceeds the car's limit so you may need to do careful loading. Sorry about all the maths.

crusader replied on 08/08/2018 18:22

Posted on 03/07/2018 22:29 by Waffler

Your licence means that the total maximum car weight and maximum caravan weight cannot be bigger than 3500lg.   The wording differ  between car manufacturers.  So find the biggest weight for the car, often max gross.(This will be on a plate in the car, possibly under the bonnet.) Take that from 3500 and then that is the MTPLM of the caravan you can have. The MTPLM will be on the plate by the door of the caravan.   Now find the kerb weight of the car- this definition varies, probably in the handbook or on the makers web site.  (If not try Honest John web site). Work out 85% of this. This figure is the recommended MTPLM of the caravan for safe towing. Two other figures to check- max tow weight of car and max tow ball weight. With all these numbers the rule is the lowest applies.  On tow ball weight  many caravans have a limit of 100 kg which often exceeds the car's limit so you may need to do careful loading. Sorry about all the maths.

Posted on 08/08/2018 18:22

which means his car is allowed by law to tow a trailer braked upto 1875kg I understand what fellow members are saying re the 85% rule and thats not a bad guide line for a novice again tow ball weights need to be taken into account, one thing that would concern me is does the car have enough power or will it struggle ?

Robidoo replied on 26/08/2018 12:00

Posted on 08/08/2018 18:22 by crusader

which means his car is allowed by law to tow a trailer braked upto 1875kg I understand what fellow members are saying re the 85% rule and thats not a bad guide line for a novice again tow ball weights need to be taken into account, one thing that would concern me is does the car have enough power or will it struggle ?

Posted on 26/08/2018 12:00

Not sure if it’s a match but the car sure has enough power I think it’s 215 or225bhp.

my 67 plate Mini Countryman says max braked tow at 1500kgs . Mines the 2lt cooper TD kicks out about 190bhp reckon i’d Tow a 1500kg van v dry safely in it .

Peeps probably don’t know but the 2017 on countryman is based on a BMW X1. Running gear so a lot bigger heavier than any other mini . 

Not gonna tow with ours as i’ll Use my bmw but still think it would tow well 👍

lornalou1 replied on 31/08/2018 22:13

Posted on 26/08/2018 12:00 by Robidoo

Not sure if it’s a match but the car sure has enough power I think it’s 215 or225bhp.

my 67 plate Mini Countryman says max braked tow at 1500kgs . Mines the 2lt cooper TD kicks out about 190bhp reckon i’d Tow a 1500kg van v dry safely in it .

Peeps probably don’t know but the 2017 on countryman is based on a BMW X1. Running gear so a lot bigger heavier than any other mini . 

Not gonna tow with ours as i’ll Use my bmw but still think it would tow well 👍

Posted on 31/08/2018 22:13

its got nothing to do with bhp but the more you have the better. the most important is the weight of car to the weight of van. don't have van heavier than vehicle pulling it.

Oneputt replied on 01/09/2018 21:52

Posted on 01/09/2018 21:52

Petrol cooper works, wow, bet the mpg will suffer badly with the van hitched.  Btw do you know what the nose weight on the tow bar would be.

what you need now is Lutz to come along and sort out the weights.

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