When is a CL not a CL?

Thanks, DD. That is exactly what it was, a question about whether a licensed site can include within its allowed numbers, a CL..

As far as the first site is concerned it is on a small farm and quite obviously not affluent by any stretch of the imagination. The farm runs a small number of livestock for which they are still having to buy winter feed, long after they should be so the income from the CL is a lifeline for them. As I see it, they can do one of several things, continue as they do at present and allow more than 5 units at £13.00 per night which is obviously popular with members as it was full all week, charge £3 or £4.00 more per pitch to retain the same income but to revert to 5 units or to retain the current fee with 5 vans only which, I would suggest, would not be sufficient income. This could not only close the site to members but could quite easily be the demise of the farm.

As there is plenty of room and also plenty of club members who like the site as it is I think I know the best route for all concerned.

This doesn't detract from my original question about small licensed sites and CLs. For all I know the farm may well have a small site license as, as I said in my OP, the club officials must know this site as it is unique and has been mentioned in the club magazine. But no, I'm still not going to name it and possibly put the future of the site and the farm in general in jeopardy. Anyone who has been there may be able to recognise it but probably feel the same as I do that we are helping a business that is certainly not having it easy.

Its like most laws, easy to pass but  never implemented.The Local Auth or Nat Parks have no wish to get involved in the numbers game. They see CC with 5 units and the C&CC with 15 units ( 5vans, 10 tents) and don't make  a distinction.

Totally agree with last sentence.

Perhaps HQ could answer these questions and say why they are against plans to extend the 5 van rule.

When did the CL system first start?

How many caravans were on the road then?

How many members were there then?

How many cl's were there at the peak?

I know there we over 5000 in 1986 when I joined now there are just over half that.

How many have left the system because of the 5 van limit?

Some landowners seem to get round the rule by using another field or even a fence or hedge. So it seems as though it can be done. One owner even has 4 cl's in a very short area.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. Raise the limit to 10 if the landowner has space. this will immediately bring back the number of pitches and also stop the number of cl's leaving the club to go independent. An example is that of The Old Gas Works cl in Evesham. A very popular location because of it's closeness to the town and pleasant situation on the river. The site has now left the club to go it alone after having to turn away business because of this daft ruling. It's new capacity is only 8 pitches but obviously worth their while after turning away club members because of this rule.

I know some of you are against raising the limit but since 1986 the cl system has been on a slippery slope and this needs to be stopped.

Posted on 01/05/2018 09:38 by harryb
"Totally agree with last sentence.
Perhaps HQ could answer these questions and say why they are against plans to extend the 5 van rule."

How many times does the club have to explain it, I often wonder why people are members of a club who's regulations they have no intention of upholding.

Posted on 08/02/2018 14:47 by CLMaddie
Hi All,
The exempted status privilege that has been granted to the Club by Natural England, which enables us to operate CLs, comes from the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960. That privilege applies not only to our CL operation, but also to all of our temporary sites and the more than 2,500 rallies that our Centres organise across the Country every year. The fact that the Act has survived intact for 58 years is a credit to all of the Exempted Organisations, who approach their activities in such a responsible manner through their codes of conduct and the behaviour of their members.
We need to be very careful that any argument for an increase in the number of pitches on a CL is not just viewed as a back door way of getting around the site licensing regime, which is a compliance requirement for the operators of commercial sites. Indeed, many of our members enjoy staying on CLs because they offer a more intimate experience and they would not necessarily wish to see them increasing in size.
The Club’s focus is on doing all that we can to grow the number of CLs, not the size of individual CLs, so that we have a balanced coverage across the country for all our members to enjoy.
Thanks
Maddie

I'm sorry if in my ageing years my memory has lapses but going back to February I can't remember reading or seeing that post and I don't read posts under every topic on this forum. If the question on the subject has been asked many times, as you clearly state, then maybe the club should put rulings of that nature under a heading at the top of the page. I and thousands of others don't want to go through the laborious routine of searching out historical information made even more difficult by a search facility that doesn't seem to work well. Hence the many repeated topics over time.

The reply from Maddie answers my first two questions. Answers to the other questions will help, maybe, in giving a reason why the system is ready for a change. She states that, "we need to be careful not to be seen to be going in by the back door", to increase the number of pitches. Increasing the number of pitches to 10 by going through the correct channels is not going in by the back door. The C&CC have an even larger total than 10 and they are the same type organisation probably running under the same legislation. Also stated is, "The Club’s focus is on doing all that we can to grow the number of CLs"  Year on year there seems to be more closures than new cl's opening, note my comment of over 5000 cl's. and to continue, "not the size of individual CLs, so that we have a balanced coverage across the country for all our members to enjoy".  Just what is a balanced coverage? As far as pleasing all members is concerned you will never do that so maybe a poll might prove some interesting facts.

 I am a member of this club to enjoy my hobby and I want that to continue. I never said anything about not upholding rules. However, if I arrive at a cl that has 5 vans already pitched and there was space and it was ok with the owner then I would pitch. If that is breaking the rules that is the site owner not the member. That was the cl I chose for a reason. I wouldn't be inconvenienced trawling through the book looking for somewhere else.

Finally, as I said when I agreed with DD the system needs an overhaul to bring it back to a healthier standard and that does not mean breaking rules.

This isn't a personal comment about you HarryB, but if I'm on a CL which is full and a sixth van turns up expecting to use it I'd be annoyed. The reason we choose CLs is because they are only for five vans, they are usually quieter and less crowded and we like them that way. 

You may not be inconveniencing yourself but you would be affecting others.  So I am happy with the planning rules, it's quite a good system and prevents vans encroaching on certain places in large numbers. 

Harry, several of us have posted info similar to Maddie's a few times and I’m sure you’ve been party to the threads.

If I remember correctly, C&CC need to grant two exemptions to their CS's. One for 5 vans and another for tents. You can look up the Govt ruling for yourself and check out if I’m right.

The club, or any other organisation granted the right to issue exemption certificates, could lose that right if the regulations are breached.

Yes, you will be right TW I have taken part in similar discussions on this topic. Me and the 'Search' facility don't get on. My thoughts and concerns still remain the same. The club have got to stop the decline of cl's. 

My take on doubling the number of units is not to just do it but for the club to apply under the act for a rule change thereby not contravening any laws.

It’s the law, Harry. The club can’t simply apply for a change. 

Perhaps you could lobby your MP to bring a Private Member's Bill to Parliament.

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