Network Shrinkage

I do not think the minority or others on here are at all "hell bent" making  cls bigger for any thing else but to try a way of making it more finacialy viable for those owners who that struggle with trying to keep their fees down,with ever increasing overheads,maybe yours is a "popular" well used cl in an area which is popular ,but without thinking of all those who may only get used during short periods and a small  increase in allowed pitches, could help keep the network from shrinking further,

What ideas have you to increase the cl network,? or even more important stop the shrinkage

IMHO there is no way the club will successfully 'grow the number of CLs' whilst members expect any new sites to charge so little for what they offer.

Having run a successful CL for a few years now I would say to anyone thinking of opening one without ehu and only charging between £5 and £8 per night (as suggested on here) not to bother.  Why should anyone expect someone to go to so much effort for such little reward?

As Cholsey Grange has said "Until members realise these facts - and stop expecting a farmer to be happy with £5/night - the decline in the network will continue as CL owners retire and the new generation seek a better return on their assets."

It isn't just a case of open up a field, stick a cesspit in the corner and a water tap.  You have to keep the grass mown, take phone calls, answer emails, empty the bins, pull out those who get stuck, collect the pitch fees, insure for public liability, pay to test the electrics (if present), get a website and manage it (yes, that is a requirement these days if you want people to visit), defrost frozen taps....the list goes on and on.  Why the heck would I do all that for less than £10 per night?

Now I hear you say 5 x £10 is £50 per night....sorry, if you have no ehu you probably won't be all that busy and rarely get a full house.

The fact that you can, with modern technology, be self sufficient without ehu is irrelevant...it's not what the vast majority of members want to do (at least for now).  We've just invested nearly £3000 in fully serviced bollards and already, since 1st January, I've picked up at least 16 new visitors (65 nights) who would otherwise have not come because they want fully serviced pitches and it's still only the beginning of February.

We have members in the owners group who can count the number of nights they've been fully booked last year on one hand and they're not charging the earth either.

Times are changing and CLs have to change with the times if they want to still be here in a few years and that means putting in far more effort than in years gone by.  Members are demanding online booking....it costs!

To complain about the decline in numbers of CLs and then slate new ones who come on board because they want to charge a realistic rate is unfair and contradicatory.

Until those who want 'all for nothing' accept that it's not going to happen the decline WILL continue.

Nicola
www.skybarnfarm.co.uk
Telephone: 01522 681218
Email: enquiries@skybarnfarm.co.uk
Site 965, page 402 of the 2017/2018 Sites Directory
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Just for the record, Vulcan, please note that if at all practicable I would like to see a continuation of the 5 van rule but time and time again we hear from CL owners who state the economies just do not add up and more and more either close up, change their way of attracting customers by adding pods or lodges or expand the number of units and carry on being a small caravan site.

So what do we do? Just sit back and allow the number of CLs to carry on diminishing or look at viable alternatives? I want to be able to carry on visiting CLs for quite some time but in the last couple of years have seen myself visiting more and more small commercial sites, quite a few of them being former CLs.

Just this last fortnight I have stayed on 3 CLs, prices ranging from £11 per night to £17. I was happy to pay them all as they were in the right position but the dearer one had Service Pitches. The cheaper one admitted that he will have to increase his price as he can't sustain it at the current level yet his CL could quite easily cope with 8 units without spoiling the effect of space that CL visitors require.

Not every CL would be suited to expanding from 5 (indeed we stayed at one last year that restricted themselves to just 4 units) so any change wouldn't result in a worse environment if handled by insisting on a certain amount of space between units, and not using the club yardstick either.

Doing nothing will result in fewer CLs, that much is evident. Not a delightful prospect for me.

Nicola - you make a very good point. I think it's unreasonable to expect CLs  to be "cheap" simply because they are CLs. I do believe that most members, like us, choose CLs because they are smaller, less crowded options than main club or commercial sites. Prices are clearly dependent on what facilities are offered but also on the nearby alternatives.

For example, last year we paid £20 a night for a CL near Clitheroe. Some would say that's too expensive for a CL. But for our £20 we had a HS serviced pitch, awning and the dogs included and wifi. The site had a very good shower and toilet. So, basically, the same facilities as many club sitesites,  but shared between just 4 units while we were there. Oh, and glorious open views across the valley to Pendle Hill. Why would we want to pay £35 a night at the large commercial site just down the road but surrounded by trees, or £24 a night for the C&CC site down in the town itself? If CLs like this are to survive, folk must be prepared to pay the going rate. 

Vulcan

In 1986 there were around 5000 cl's now there are around half that. What of the future.

Members are not condoning overbooking we are just looking at trying to find a way of boosting the levels back to where they were years ago. If new cl's can't be found, which is looking extremely likely, then doubling the pitches available will at least go some way to solving the issue. Done properly with the correct legislation will not put the cl system at risk.

We are in a situation, in certain areas, where there is no space for members to book cl's, in busier times.

Doubling pitches from 5 to 10 is still small

Not only do some members condone overlooking but some local councils do by virtue of the fact that they grant planning permission to  sites that have broken the exemption certificate rules in order to make a case for more caravans, they should not be granted permission for this reason alone.

As a member who does not generally use CLs closures will affect the likes of me in as much as any dis[;aced outfits have to go elsewhere and reduce availability for all.

 The main reason that I don't use CLs is that I don't trouble to seek out ones that I might use. 

I would happily use a CL such as the one below and pay the asking price.

Nicola
www.skybarnfarm.co.uk
Telephone: 01522 681218
Email: enquiries@skybarnfarm.co.uk
Site 965, page 402 of the 2017/2018 Sites Directory

There appears to be some discrepancy in what members consider acceptable for CL's. Some CL's are very roomy, others very compact and might be unable to accommodate more. Should any proposal for varying the figure be related to size?

Remain at 5?

Increase to 8?

Increase to 10-12, subject to space being >1 acre?

Until we really know what we want, it is difficult to formulate a lobbying policy.

We use CLs and small private sites on a regular basis. Many small private sites we use had previously been either a CL or a CS, but have just gone through the motions of gaining planning consent to expand the site. Some small private sites just went straight down the planning consent, rather than latch onto either Club. All are a legal way of providing pitches. These sites are still there, just in a different incarnation. One or two may have found the visits from site inspectors less than helpful, I can certainly vouch for conversations with a couple of CL owners who have thought this way, and have been happy to go down the private route. We have found lots of lovely private sites not allied to the Clubs, and if the day comes where the CL network doesn't suit us anymore, then we shall make a decision whether or not to renew membership. We are a long way from that point at the moment though.

It all depends on what the aims and objectives of the owners are in terms of setting up and running a CL. This isn't something visitors can influence, we are just there to use and enjoy whatever provision is made for us at whatever cost. At some point the objectives will or will not be met.