Loosing More CLs, why?

Micheal T - I was careful to say that we are a diverse lot . I like everyone else who uses CL s am interested in why they are closing or at least reducing in numbers for many reasons. I still think that the emphasis is more on profit these days and not the benevolence there once was. I'm sorry if I bored you but I simply offered a possible explanation for the demise of CL numbers. Of course people will pay for what they consider 'worth it' and long may they do so. 

I'm an avid fan of CLs.

As far as I can see, the CAMC is a commercially driven business, not a 'Club' so they probably see little marketing sense in tempting people away from their own money-making sites.

I'd be interested to know if the Club receives any income from CLs (as opposed to the Club's own sites).

Do CL owners have to pay a fee to be listed? If they do, the support they get on the website is nothing less than disgraceful.

Are CL owners allowed to operate independently? I.e. promote their site (up to 5 units) and take bookings from non members? They should be, as it seems very one-sided to be restricted by an agreement that provides little or nothing in return. If they are not allowed to promote themselves outside the CAMC I foresee more and more closing down.

Can't see what you are trying to say MT, who mentioned area reviews? I presume that you're referring to that monthly advertiser that the club call  a magazine?

Looks like we must agree to disagree then.....Cheers, thanks for your input.....

I guess we can put it down to one sentence in the end- Use it or Lose it! 

Could members emphasis on "cheap" be part of the problem?

We as CL Owners cannot accept anyone other than Club members ( There are other organisations that register CL/CS type 5 van sites that accept non members of any type ) so therefore our only real point of advertising is the Club magazine which as I pointed out in an earlier thread may well be once in 50 to 80 years !.  New CL's also have to be Club members as well, we are in our own right in order to use our caravan.   As we are in Scotland then we don't have the numbers of vanners around us as with some of the major towns / cities in England and it would be great to have a larger audience we could attract out of season.

David    www.perthshirecl.co.uk

Its mostly a cash business, so membership of the club comes low on Cls accepting units. Never yet turned away or very rarely if ever asked for my membership cad.

AN OFF GRID CLs POINT OF VIEW!
I would like to thank Merve for a great post and for acknowledging with thanks “all those hard working CL owners”.

As an “Off Grid “ CL which has been going for 4 years and is possibly one of what Merve  describes as “the guy who has a spare bit of land who wants to do something with it”, I would like to confirm that the £2-3000 per year is not correct for me, I charge £6.75-9.50 a night depending on the number of nights spent on site - last year it was £900!. We are not near the coast or any other large attraction so it may make a difference. I do have a website and promote the site elsewhere other than just on the CAMC listing, which although we don’t pay a fee for the CAMC listing I have to be a member to have a link to our website and I do insure the site through them. I cannot edit the listing details directly on the CAMC site it all has to be done by them.

I set the site up as a friend who was a CC member at the time said it would be a good use for the area of land (he is still a friend!). I enjoy the location and only really do it so others may also. I certainly do not do it for the money or sorting out the waste bins for recycling - more the satisfaction of hearing how members have enjoyed their stay and will return. The reason in the end for picking the Caravan Club at the time was the number of members and CLs in the club although I am not so sure now I would again, as there are other clubs out there that offer free membership and are more flexible e.g. do not restrict the site to just members

I have provided a solar panel unit to encourage the members that are reluctant to uncouple the orange lead to try out off grid. This has to my knowledge converted at least 2 members to solar and freedom to go anywhere!

The description being used by some of an off grid CL as “a tap in the middle of a muddy field” does nothing to help support an off grid site!, it maybe not be their cup of tea but may prevent someone perhaps thinking of giving it a go. My site is certainly not that as it is well mown and maintained.

I agree the answer to not loosing CLs has to be “Use it or lose it”

Regards,
John Clifton
NEWTON GROVE, Barford Road, South Newington, BANBURY, OX15 4LN
Caravan & Motorhome Club Site Directory 2017/18 no: 1273 (p440) CMC Listing
E: newton.grove@btconnect.com
P: 07722 918265:
W: newtongrove.co.uk
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/NewtonGroveCL

Spriddler,  

Delighted you are a fan of CL's.  I hope to meet you at some point, here at our CL in the lovely Chiltern Hills.  We have much to discuss!

To answer your points;

Club v CL Sites & Marketing.  Your observations are correct, the vast majority of outbound email marketing, social media (facebook etc.) and presence at Shows is geared towards Club Sites.  

Presence in the Magazine is gradually improving and the new Club Website is (arguably) a small step forwards from where it was (although there have been some massive teething problems).  

The Club also invested £7M on club sites last year, so they are bound to want to recover this.  In contrast, the Club does not financially support CL's (a loan or grant scheme to support struggling CL's where the CL network is 'thin' has been suggested).  This approach could work well (the Club has funds) to help improve the network.  Look at LEADR funding as an example.

Income from CL's.  There are a few ways to look at this.  

Direct Income.. All new CL's have to be members, so the Club could eventually be making around £110K per year when all CL's are members.  

Indirect Income.. According to Club research 22% of members join the Club 'mainly or only' to access the CL network. 6% of members say they are members because they only stay on CL's. In financial terms 22% of Member Subscriptions equates to £3,206,896 in 2015 or 6% of Member Subscriptions equates to £874,608 in 2015.

I personally doubt whether CL's 'cost' the club anywhere near £3M to run (there is a team of 4-5 administrators @HQ) + Field advisers & officers, many of whom are voluntary.  So yes, in my opinion the Club does make a nett benefit from having the CL network, but an accountant might not agree!

The Club could also be generating new membership (renewal) income from CL's - but has so far not allowed CL's to 'sign-up' new members on site.

Can we take 'Non Members'?  No.  We are strictly bound by the annual certification of the CAMC to only take members.  We do not benefit from signing-up members 'on site' (as Club Sites can) and we risk losing our certification if we take non-members.

So what are CL Owners doing about all this??

• CL Owners are becoming 'Nominated Members' of Club Council I am the first (and have been in post 2 years) but I'm hoping others will follow.  My application was based on the premise of promoting the values of CL's for Members and Owners alike.   If you read the minutes of the recent AGM's and Club Council you'll see that I have been a vocal champion!
• CL Owners have formed their own 'self-help' group.  There are 250+ CL owners now on the group, and membership is growing rapidly.  
• We have raised a range of issues with the senior management of the Club and chairmen of Voluntary committees regarding CL's.  
• At the most recent Club Council meeting a 'Breakout' session was focused on CL's.  Our issues helped to raise the profile of CL's among the Club Council and  and I emphasised that the 2,300 CL's should be seen as 'champions' of the Club throughout the country..  I will wait to see if any of the ideas are acted upon   
• Some progress has been made,  In 2015 a comprehensive survey of CL owners was undertaken by the Club to canvas views.  the No. 1 issues that affects CL owners was found to be No Shows and Cancellations, but this issue has yet to be addressed by the Club, hence an increasing number of CL owners are implementing non-returnable deposits or asking for full payment in advance.  
• I now meet on a fairly regular basis with Club Management to discus the progress of various initiatives, but implementation is achingly slow.. Top of the agenda right now is to halt the decline in CL numbers, assist New CL's to get established and recruit new CL's to the network.

Not all CL's are perfect..  The beauty of the CL network is that it is incredibly diverse, not just geographically, but in the level of facilities or what is offered.  

• So for example there are a number of 'No Dogs' CL's and 'Adult Only' CL's'.  Some are 'off grid' and offer few facilities, but may be in a stunning location & cost less than £10.  Others have amazing facilities and can cost more than £20.  
• Many CL's could improve their marketing (lack of photos on the Club Site pages being a frequent gripe) or offering an email address to take booking enquiries, but Members now have many tools to assess a potential CL from Google Satellite views to Member Reviews etc.  However, it must be borne in mind that around a 1/3 of CL owners simply offer their CL as a 'hobby' and may not be striving to maximise income or the number of visitors.  The remain 2/3 view CL's as a secondary - but often necessary - income stream for their smallholding or farm business.

How can you - as Members - help?  

• Use CL's.  Give the 'Off Grid' ones a try too!
• Look for new CL's and visit them.  
• Don't cancel at the last minute if you can avoid it!,
• Write reviews for CL's  - especially new ones, or those who have changed hands .
• Put yourself forwards to be a Nominated Member and support CL's at the Council Meetings, or simply attend the AGM and support CL's..    Where would the Club be without the CL network??
• Write letters to the Club Magazine..
• Spot a potential CL site and suggest to the landowner that they might consider opening a CL..  
• Check with CL owners you meet that they are members of the CL Owners Group.

In short, the Club could do so much more to assist CL's, but that needs both leadership, commitment, vision, budget and execution.  Some of this is falling into place, and the Club has many other priorities on it's agenda including 'Pods' etc. that seem to be higher on the agenda than the CL network..  

To end on an analogy.. We (the CL Network) could be the 'Jewel in the Crown' of the club, but I fear that many jewels are working loose and a growing number are falling out.. The crown needs attention, some new jewels and a regular polish and kept in a more elevated position than it is today.. 

Ted, it's churlish to disagree with you because you are trying so hard, and you have written passionately at such length.  

But most CLs are not jewels in anybody's crown. There are certainly some, where the owners have worked hard and deserve credit, but many of that sort of owners have continued on forward,  and have invested, diversified, developed, enlarged, and expanded. They now have fully fledged, grown up campsites, open to all. 

But there are an awful lot of  CLs  which remain as just a bit of spare land, or a fenced off corner of a field,  where caravanners can come if they want to, but little is done to make the site attractive or attract wider business. No landscaping, no flowers or shrubs, no facilities, no personal welcome, no sort of customer service. There are some Club members who accept that sort of solitude and say that's all they want, but most people these days want more. 

it would pay you to go across the channel and meet some British expats who have set up small campsites in France and see the things they have done and the way they genuinely act as hospitable hosts for their visitors. 

I appreciate how hard you yourself are trying and wish you well in your own venture, but I'm afraid I regard the idea of  "5 only, members only" as an idea way past its sell-by date. 

Regards to you.