Towing a T/A with an EV - real world

Paul

By extreme I was meaning the cost of both the car and the caravan and their respective sizes. Whilst its difficult to judge and perhaps people shouldn't make such judgements but hardly the combined price of the average outfit on a Club site. Well beyond me BTW! 

I am of the age when I suspect it won't concern me. I have a new Hybrid car on order, currently 4 months and waiting, so if that lasts as long as the current one I imagine I may never own an EV? 

I don't think we can change the course of history as the die has been cast. Even if the UK moved back the point where only EV's could be sold the entire automotive industry is geared up to producing EV's and it may become difficult to buy an ICE car as we get nearer to 2030? Without doubt we are going through a period of massive change. The trouble, for all of us, is that caravanning and motorhoming is a mere speck in that change and I could see us all feeling that we will have no control over what happens?

David

https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/renewable/the-environmental-impact-of-lithium-batteries/

We have considered swapping our six year old EV, which has been excellent to use and getting an EV which could tow. We would then consider a small caravan and get rid of our diesel guzzling and polluting motorhome. The caravan would be small as there would no point in towing a large heavy caravan which would draw heavily on power both on the road and on site.

As for lithium batteries ours show no sign of reduced output, I also have a lithium powered radio that has lasted a long time too. Lithium batteries are recyclable.  Meanwhile fossil fuels continue to warm the planet so there is a choice out there, things have moved on. Fossil fuel vehicles are on the way out.

I not denying any of that Flatcoat. If you like your diesel tug and are happy with it - stick with it! It makes life easy. 

Just pointing out that experience of one motoring journo - who admitted he hadn't towed anything for 10 years, and that was a horsebox - is not a yard stick by which to judge all towing. 

And that if you happen to want an EV for other reasons (cost, environmental, you just like them) towing is still an option and can work well. 

Unhitching was discussed - yes. But only discussed. No actual attempt to do it (as in Andrew Ditton's videos) or my own experience. Quite a lot of "I expect it will be like this", rather than - "this is me doing it to see what its actually like". 

Mine drops from 190-210 down to 130-140. Also much less than 50%. And yes the staring range is much less than 600 and the result much less than 400. But it's still over 2 hours towing which (for me) is as much as I like to do before a break. YMMV. 

Stories of "having" to wear coats, and range impact due to heating, lights wipers and entertainment are mostly associated with old Nissan Leafs, whos battery will only now deliver 60miles range. I can assure you, I set my climate to 20, use my heated seats and steering wheel, set my wipers and lights to auto, and use my entertainment, and see no perceptible difference in range. These are simply non-issues. Sitting stationary in traffic uses about 1% battery in 90 mins. 

Sure - they (mostly) don't reach the WLTP official range. How many ICE cars reach the WLTP official MPG? about the same number. I have not noticed the mayor of london forcing drivers of ICE off the road. I have noticed a charge for non-euro4 petrol (2012 or older) and non-euro6 diesel (2016 or older) cars. Maybe the V8s are all newer than 2012 if petrol or 2016 if diesel. Yes - they should be EVs I agree. 

I am a big fan - yes. Define "most" caravaners. I have no idea what "Most caravaners" look like. Perhaps they are the older retired generation who use their caravan for 3000 mile European tours. In which case an ICE tug is probably more suitable. Or perhaps they are like me, still working, with a family, using their company car to tow their caravan for 5 or 6 holidays a year, in which case the use of an EV is perfect. 

It's definitely a case of horses for courses. 

Some of us took the plunge and have gone over to the "other side" experience counts and our EV has exceeded our expectations however I appreciate that there are others who won't be joining us. At present it's all about choice and costs and practicality. So we still run a motorhome that produces a shock to the system every time we fill it up and ever increasing limits or costs on where we can take it due to it's older polluting engine and this is the same for older ICE cars too. Whatever the future the one sure thing is change.

Define "most" caravaners

The massive majority of what I see on sites.

using their company car

and that is the critical bit,isn't it? 

Sure - they (mostly) don't reach the WLTP official range. How many ICE cars reach the WLTP official MPG? about the same number.

Cant argue with that, but the ICE starting point is much higher.

I have no objection to EV's - my beef is that we are being forced into this rather than being given the choice. CCP???

When the car first came along no one banned horses, but the change to cars happened voluntarily because the car was BETTER than the horse. If EV's were that good, and better (for the majority) than ICE cars, the change would happen over time. The fact that HMG are forcing the change says it all, to me anyway.

Yes - its true that the demand for expansion in new technologies results in "gold rush" behaviours as companies look to profit from natural resource extraction, and often governments and legislation lack the speed, agility and somtimes will to curb malpractice. It's not a new phenomenon, and should not be ignored. 

But pretending that EVs are somehow especially bad in the face of the impact of oil extraction is to ignore the elephant in the room.

 https://odi.org/en/about/our-work/climate-and-sustainability/faq-3-oil-and-gas-poverty-the-environment-and-human-rights/

Of the "many published reports" there are two in particular where the 70k or 90k mile number is cited. The Volvo and Polestar environmental impact report. The number is often miss-quoted as it is derived from the higest number based on global carbon mix of generated electricty, rather than the EU mix (that we actually use). 

The Polestar paper is here and page 10 shows that my particular variant charged on the EU carbon mix breaks even after 76,000 km or 47,500 miles. 

https://www.polestar.com/dato-assets/11286/1630409045-polestarlcarapportprintkorr11210831.pdf

As to "leccie from the grid" and drax woodchip. As you say - you get what you use, but its very dependent on the time of day you use it. Overnight electricty has a lower carbon content than peak electricity. Charge overnight (when its cheap) and you lower the payback time on the car as the electricty mix is greener. 

https://carbonintensity.org.uk

The forums are littered with horror stories. There are also facts from others not looking to sensationalise ownership. Like, only having ever waited for a charge point once (and even then only because I was killing time waiting for a train to arrive) in 20 months. Or range being exactly what I was expecting - every time - because the screen is very accurate, or being MUCH cheaper than an ICE with 200 miles costing me about £5.60 at the moment or my annual service from a Polestar service center (Volvo main dealer) being free with the car for 3 years, or 4 new tyres costing just under £1000 after 23,500 miles which is the same price as my XC90 was for 16,000miles, and no recalls and only 1 issue. 

You will believe what you like - but its not all doom and gloom. 

But it simply isn't in danger. 

Your way of caravanning might be a bit harder with an EV. For mine, it works perfectly. I use the van in exactly the same way as we did starting in 2008. 

No one is forcing you into an EV. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_for_Energy_Research

Not a biased source at all...