A-Frame Towing Europe

Paul1951 replied on 09/07/2017 18:12

Posted on 09/07/2017 18:12

A-Frame towing in Europe
I know this subject has been covered many times on various forums and I have read most of them.
I have been towing a Citroen C1 behind my Swift Bolero for 4 years now without any issues, but the number of people reporting problems does concern me. The system I use is fully electronic applying the cars brakes in proportion to the motorhome braking, there is a breakaway safety device fitted, all car lighting operate as any caravan or trailer would and it can be reversed without intervention. I believe this system meets all the legal requirements for a trailer hear in the UK.

I also believe that In Europe and Spain especially, the A-Frame assembly is classed as a recovery tool as in a Tow-Dolly or Rigid Tow which can only be used for short distances by licensed agents. These devices have no braking or lighting connection to the towed vehicle.

Now my point is more to do with the Safety and Convenience issue.
I don't think there is any doubt that towing with an A-Frame that meats all legal requirements is more Stable, Safer and more Convenient than using car transport trailer. With the growing number of Club members realising these benefits should the Motorhome and Caravan Club legal team be taking this matter up.
Comments Please.

Paul1951 replied on 12/07/2017 17:58

Posted on 12/07/2017 17:58

I've obviously failed to convince all on the Legality issue in the UK.
Maybe instead of Totally Legal, I should have said the onus would be on the police to show or provide proof of a failing of the requirements.
This is why even systems that probably do fail to meet trailer requirements don't get pulled up.

I won't attempt to convince anyone of the questionable interpretation of the law in Europe by some Police Officers over what is a motor vehicle and what is a trailer.
I also certainly won't attempt to challenge one of these Officers if I come across one.

Over the past 4 years I have towed through France and Spain a total of about 12000miles passing through police road checks and many police drive bys, so I have obviously been lucky up to now.
Due to our circumstances we need regular stops for refreshments / toilet breaks and we like to make use of French Aires whenever possible. We couldn't manage a trailer even if we wanted to, so I will continue A-Frame towing until I become unlucky.

In my past life I was an Electrical/Mechanical Engineer so I will continue to ignore issues over electrical/mechanical suitability. Anyone that suggests that a car transport trailer is safer or more stable on the road, must need their head testing. A trailer that probably stands idle for 6-9 months with brakes and suspension seizing up and possibly unchecked/tested, then there is the issue of securing the car to the trailer and nose weight issues also the higher centre of gravity and weight distribution through a single axle.
Please let me know if anyone ever sees an A-Frame Tow snaking down a road.

Lutz replied on 12/07/2017 19:55

Posted on 12/07/2017 17:58 by Paul1951

I've obviously failed to convince all on the Legality issue in the UK.
Maybe instead of Totally Legal, I should have said the onus would be on the police to show or provide proof of a failing of the requirements.
This is why even systems that probably do fail to meet trailer requirements don't get pulled up.

I won't attempt to convince anyone of the questionable interpretation of the law in Europe by some Police Officers over what is a motor vehicle and what is a trailer.
I also certainly won't attempt to challenge one of these Officers if I come across one.

Over the past 4 years I have towed through France and Spain a total of about 12000miles passing through police road checks and many police drive bys, so I have obviously been lucky up to now.
Due to our circumstances we need regular stops for refreshments / toilet breaks and we like to make use of French Aires whenever possible. We couldn't manage a trailer even if we wanted to, so I will continue A-Frame towing until I become unlucky.

In my past life I was an Electrical/Mechanical Engineer so I will continue to ignore issues over electrical/mechanical suitability. Anyone that suggests that a car transport trailer is safer or more stable on the road, must need their head testing. A trailer that probably stands idle for 6-9 months with brakes and suspension seizing up and possibly unchecked/tested, then there is the issue of securing the car to the trailer and nose weight issues also the higher centre of gravity and weight distribution through a single axle.
Please let me know if anyone ever sees an A-Frame Tow snaking down a road.

Posted on 12/07/2017 19:55

You are putting an awful lot of emphasis on the stability of A-frame towing as if that were the only justification for allowing it.

I don't think that any of the powers-that-be, whether in the UK or the Continent, would question whether an A-frame plus car is to be treated as a trailer or not. As long as A-frames are not recognised as such in any legislation, neither in the UK nor on the Continent, they have no other option.

The law in Europe is not questionable. It is the legal situation in the UK which is.

 

Tammygirl replied on 12/07/2017 19:56

Posted on 12/07/2017 19:56

Funny you should ask that Paul, the firm that made our trike trailer (also A frames) will not make A frames for certain makes, Smart cars being one, as they say they 'dance' around behind the motor home something awful.

We still use our A frame in the UK but abroad we now take a trike on a trailer.

Tinwheeler replied on 12/07/2017 20:53

Posted on 12/07/2017 20:53

"Please let me know if anyone ever sees an A-Frame Tow snaking down a road"

Not snaking but I witnessed a car being towed on an A-frame only yesterday where the car was bouncing both up and down and sideways. That'll have done it a lot of good! In that instance it was less stable than a trailer so I guess I need my head testing but at least I accept the situation rather than keep stressing myself about it.

EmilysDad replied on 12/07/2017 22:28

Posted on 12/07/2017 08:48 by Milothedog

One would hope that they made the owner aware of this in the handbook?

I did, in my explanation try to take a generic approach which is the case generally, but as you point out there is always an exception as I said with some of the smaller autos. 

Either way, it's not an issue I will have to consider because I prefer to just un hitch and set up for the duration of our stay leaving us the car to use. But we all like different thingscool

Posted on 12/07/2017 22:28

Both Smart's user manual & Mercedes say you can't tow a Smart due its auto box ..... a bit of bum covering as many Smarts are towed thousands of miles without problem. I've just towed mine about 200 miles.

EmilysDad replied on 12/07/2017 22:35

Posted on 12/07/2017 19:56 by Tammygirl

Funny you should ask that Paul, the firm that made our trike trailer (also A frames) will not make A frames for certain makes, Smart cars being one, as they say they 'dance' around behind the motor home something awful.

We still use our A frame in the UK but abroad we now take a trike on a trailer.

Posted on 12/07/2017 22:35

The Smart Fortwo (450) I saw today being towed via A frame behind a fairly large motor home wasn't  dancing smile

Lutz replied on 13/07/2017 06:18

Posted on 13/07/2017 06:18

Whether or not it's dancing or snaking or doing the shimmy, the chances of an A-frame being legalised on the Continent are just about zero. To me it therefore seems a waste of time and effort to discuss the issue relating to their use on the other side of the Channel any further. Only time will tell what the final outcome in the UK will be.

bigherb replied on 13/07/2017 07:52

Posted on 13/07/2017 07:52

Please let me know if anyone ever sees an A-Frame Tow snaking down a road.

 

You mean like this?

One way of keeping people a safe distance behind you.

young thomas replied on 13/07/2017 10:22

Posted on 13/07/2017 10:22

totally off the wall, but would a smaller mh do the job?

imrealise youd be losing some space inside, but some PVC vans and certainly the slimmer coachbuilts are far easier to park and drive these days.

ours is 6.4m long, but cruicially for ease of driving, is only 2.12m wide, just 6cm wider than a PVC mh.

we have all the quality and most of the space (imcluding garage) of our previous Carthado, but a metre shorter and sufficiently slimmer to make a huge difference on the road and when parking.

slim vans are now made by continental and uk manufacturers in just about all floorplans so perhaps so,ething for everyone.

either way, just a thought and goood luck with your travels.

Tammygirl replied on 13/07/2017 19:40

Posted on 12/07/2017 22:35 by EmilysDad

The Smart Fortwo (450) I saw today being towed via A frame behind a fairly large motor home wasn't  dancing smile

Posted on 13/07/2017 19:40

I know there are lots out there that do tow a Smart car, seen quite a few myself but as I said an A frame maker told us he won't make them for Smarts as he doesn't think they are stable.

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