An appeal to Safefill users - and others!

Thank you Easy- probably the most definitive answer given so far- but they still won’t believe you or me. - it doesn’t fit their narrative. This is exactly what I’ve said and in so many words been called a liar. Perhaps you should keep your head down mate? This forum is not what it was.  I am sure they were referring to the link they (and I) have supplied which is in this thread somewhere. 

Th only PRA article available to me is the PDF supplied by Safefill. It does say 'Following the change in The Red Guide and
the updating of User Information Sheet 26,to include the refilling of portable cylinders such as Safefill, Safefill looks forward to an acceptance, by all forecourts, to allow the refilling of cylinders specifically designed to be refilled.' 

The Red Guide update and revised Sheet 26 that Safefill were looking forwards to 13 months ago have not yet been issued and so in that regard I see nothing as having changed with regards to guidance for fuel station operators. For users of Safefill it is useful however that Morrisons have decided to permit refilling 

Yes, I see your point Easy but, that is why Safefill are asking people to print off the article as it is the newsletter of the petroleum forecourt industry and therefore will be recognised and hopefully, believed by its members. They can surely work out that their own organisation would not be lying to them through the newsletter? Or am I giving credit where there should be none? After all, nothing and no one has been believed up to now, not even the club has believed it and here I refer to Rowenas post.

I can’t lay any blame at Rowenas door and I understand why the technical dept has taken this stance given the current state of affairs. However, I have to say I find it utterly baffling and amazing as to why they haven’t (as indeed others haven’t) asked themselves one very simple question - “Why, if Morrisons are openly allowing the filling of Safefill cylinders on forecourts by supposedly  ‘untrained persons’ is it not obvious that something has changed? If Morrisons are conducting themselves in a perfectly legal manner, which, being a National Supermarket with responsibilities to it’s  staff and the general public, is it not reasonable or even certain that a tectonic shift has taken place somewhere within the LPG industry?

Now, to me, and a few others who have no axe to grind, the answer to that is YES most definitely! But what do we have? Due to the information not being available at the moment purely because it’s waiting for publication, and the old information still being available on the web, we have an almost lemming like following of the old information both Red Guide and Sheet 026. Now, I would have thought  that the technical dept of the CAMC would have been all over this like a rash! They are supposed to be the mouthpiece of this pastime and everything that relates to it but their indifference and apparent inability to do some simple  research on this subject is staggering. If the information has been disseminated by a few ‘ordinary ‘ members then surely, would I be wrong in assuming that it is perfectly within the capabilities of a technical dept of a large and well funded organisation such as CAMC to make the relevant enquiries which are not difficult with the relevant bodies? It is very disappointing that these enquiries have not, it would appear , been made. So yes, I feel that CAMC has been neglectful on this most important matter. LPG- a vital link to power on a Motorhome or Caravan and they sit on their hands! They must suspect at the very least?? It might not make pleasant reading for CAMC but in this matter, I accuse them of failing their customers by not asserting themselves and being on the cutting edge of development within this industry. That’s where they should be! Morrisons are in front of the very people who profess to look after our interests. CAMC need to get this sorted as quickly as possible and to let their public know what is going on. The facts are that refillables are here to stay and that Morrisons are filling one particular brand. I do not apologise for this viewpoint and when CAMC sit and think about it I believe they will see the point of my argument. 

To my mind the talk of a possible change to 'The Red Guide' is rather a red herring. The guide is not issued by any regulatory body and suggests that 'if this guidance is followed, site operators will
normally be able to demonstrate their compliance with the law.'

It is not directly aimed at the provision of autogas but suggests that the guide itself is a useful guide with regard to supply. All it really says is that supply of autogas (as with other forecourt fuels should comply with DSEAR (stands for the Dangerous Substances and Explosive Atmospheres Regulations 2002). Among other things this requires a risk assessment to be done. 

The Red Guide Sheet 26 Is issued by the UKPLG which is a trade body that suppliers of gas (and some others) may apply to join. It is a non statutory body and as such can only offer advice, It's current advice (as per latest issued Sheet 26, is not to permit self filling using autogas. 

The link that Safefill has hosted and provides is to a publication which I have no doubt is from the Petrol Retailers Association solely to its paid up members who choose the option to receive newsletters. The newsletter itself seems to be a buddy buddy advertisement for Safefill (nowt wrong with that). 

As far as I can ascertain nothing has changed beyond the PRA showing support for Safefill. It is still required that the supplier comply with  DSEAR 2002 a part of which is a Risk Assessment. This is why I have said that presumably Morrisons and other supplier have carried out a risk assessment and determined that safefill bottle owners using autogas to refill their own bottles is in line with the DSEAR regulations. There has never been anything to stop them that I can see as long as they deemed it safe in accordance with regulation.

The user and all related content has been Deleted User

Much my take DD. Forecourt operators are at liberty to ignore the guidance in the currently issued UKPLG Sheet 26 whether they are members of that trade group or not.

The Red Guide is complete! The only reason 026 isn’t out or in ‘draft’ ’ form as you call it is because they are dragging their feet because basically, they don’t want to admit that refills are here! Well at least there is admission that they are rewritten- that’s a quantum leap! Of course Easy, any retailer can refuse to serve anyone for any reason but one would hope that seeing the fact that these cylinders are safe, they would give permission but if they don’t that’s up to them- they just lose business! 

The retailer can a;so decide to serve whoever they wish at present Merve if they have decided it safe to do so

The Red Guide is 'complete' when it is reissued Merve and until then there may be a draft that could still change. However, as I intimated, I consider The Red Guide to be somewhat of an irrelevance as it does not suggest that autogas not be used as far as I can see and has no direct bearing. 

When an amendment to the UKPLG Sheet 26 is reissued that is more likely to have some impact on the trade.

I’d noticed you haven’t been around. I also noticed that some members ‘homed’ in to some of your posts. At the time, I just thought that there was a bit of ‘previous’ going on, not now though. A pity you feel the need to stay away, but I understand 👍

No Easy, you are not correct. The new Red Guide is ready for publication to the general industry. That does not mean that it’s in draft form or any other ‘form’- Safefill and Morrisons hold a completed copy of it! It is finished and this -

I have established with reasonable certainty that the Red Guide and UKLPG Sheet 26 have been revised and they are both only in early draft form. At present they are being circulated to all interested parties for comment, discussion, and further revision where required. They are as you say only advisor.

is utter garbage. And he asks me where I get my information from?? What a joke!

Anyway, just arrived in Wales for 3 1/2 weeks offgrid of course using my Safefill cylinders. Please, to anyone left reading this thread now it’s been turned into something unrecognisable from its original purpose, if you could email the two Garage groups I have mentioned in the OP that would be great. I have had enough of the combative nature of this forum. I have tried to help people by giving them information regarding Safefills or refillables as some prefer, and have been called everything from a liar to uninformed when in reality, I have been abreast of developments within the LPG refillable field and have, when appropriate, tried to disseminate the information to the caravanning public but the response to the trolls in this thread has been rather weak to say the least. Some have had the courage to try to protect the thread from those that have hijacked it. I, like TF, have more to do than try to convince uninformed bigots. I hope that the people who have ruined this thread from its original purpose are proud of themselves. I did try in the OP to explain what it was about as I knew that the trolls would be gathering  but the insistence and malice which has been expressed on a perfectly helpful and innocent thread has shone a light on what this forum has become- a base for narrow minded, arrogant trolls who love nothing more than going after someone who has no axe to grind. I am off to talk with people who really want to improve their lot as caravanners. CT has died for me and after 5 years I can’t see any point in it. The few decent threads that have any interest in them are quickly wrecked by the few that spoil for the sake of it because they have nothing useful or wholesome to say. I really hope that this Forum can be saved but I doubt it. Thanks to all that have supported me and what I have tried to do, but life is too short to feed the egos of a few. Farewell and best of luck to those who really care.