Newbie Question - Water Heater on or off?

Mike Brace replied on 20/10/2016 09:09

Posted on 20/10/2016 09:09

Hi guys,

First post from me as a newbie to the club along with being a newbie to caravanning in general too!

Firstly, i've already learnt a lot from everyone's posts and I feel that joining the CC has already been greatly justified, very chuffed with that.

Secondly, it's been eye opening to see how many discussions there are on weights etc and I realise that there are so many people who are towing out on the road illegally, either through blissful ignorance or choice. We had an absolute nightmare couple of weeks where we had to learn very quickly about the minefield of towing laws and essentially were told that our car was not suitable for the van that we wanted (Alfa 147) so we researched online and found that a diesel Focus 1.8 had a towing capacity that suited. Found a suitable Focus and bought it (after checking the V5 twice to confirm that the braked capacity was enough) only to find out later that the plated weights told a different story and that wasn't suitable either.....we'd just paid £5k in cash that afternoon and then I found this out. Fortunately, the dealer had a nice CRV in good nick so we swapped for that :)

AAAAaaanyway......my question! :) We are venturing out this weekend for our 1st trip in the caravan and I wanted to know whether you guys recommend leaving the water heater on at all times or do you just switch it on prior to needing it? I hate wasted energy so would prefer to turn it off before bedtime and on again in the morning but if it takes forever to heat up (we intend on showering in the van) then that might not be practical.

Advice please oh wise ones Laughing

huskydog replied on 21/10/2016 13:45

Posted on 21/10/2016 13:45

Newton's cooling law in convection is a restatement of the differential equation given by Fourier's law:

d Q d t = h · A · ( T ( t ) - T env ) = h · A ? T ( t ) {\displaystyle {{\frac {dQ}{dt}}=h\cdot A\cdot (T(t)-T_{\text{env}})=h\cdot A\Delta T(t)\quad }}

where

Q {\displaystyle Q} is the thermal energy in joules
h {\displaystyle h} is the heat transfer coefficient (assumed independent of T here) (W/(m2 K))
A {\displaystyle A} is the heat transfer surface area (m2)
T {\displaystyle T} is the temperature of the object's surface and interior (since these are the same in this approximation)
T env {\displaystyle T_{\text{env}}} is the temperature of the environment; i.e. the temperature suitably far from the surface
? T ( t ) = T ( t ) - T env {\displaystyle \Delta T(t)=T(t)-T_{\text{env}}} is the time-dependent thermal gradient between environment and object
I remeber it well !!Wink

richardandros replied on 21/10/2016 15:33

Posted on 21/10/2016 15:33

Just to put another perspective on this - we tend to turn our water heater on and off as required - not for reasons of economy or efficiency - but to ensure we don't exceed the current draw from the bollard.  We often stay on CLs and CS's and some of them only provide a supply rated at 10 amps.  It's quite easy to inadvertently trip the circuit breaker if the water heater / kettle / battery charger and perhaps the microwave are all switched on at the same time. If this isn't a consideration, then I agree it makes sense to let the thermostat do its job.

Metheven replied on 21/10/2016 15:59

Posted on 21/10/2016 15:59

Just do whatever takes your fancy, to many variables to pin it down to a definitive answer. Whether you are in or out most of the day, whether you shower in or use facilities, whether you have loads of dishes and wash them in or use facilities, whether you mind waiting 30 minutes for it to warm up or you want instantaneous, whether there's a z in the month and finally whether you should give two hoots anyway.

Myself I'm not interested in efficiency, if on a CL and no facilities then its on permanently, but if on a CC site then its as and when.

Rocky 2 buckets replied on 21/10/2016 16:21

Posted on 21/10/2016 16:21

Newton's cooling law in convection is a restatement of the differential equation given by Fourier's law:

d Q d t = h · A · ( T ( t ) - T env ) = h · A ? T ( t ) {\displaystyle {{\frac {dQ}{dt}}=h\cdot A\cdot (T(t)-T_{\text{env}})=h\cdot A\Delta T(t)\quad }}

where

Q {\displaystyle Q} is the thermal energy in joules
h {\displaystyle h} is the heat transfer coefficient (assumed independent of T here) (W/(m2 K))
A {\displaystyle A} is the heat transfer surface area (m2)
T {\displaystyle T} is the temperature of the object's surface and interior (since these are the same in this approximation)
T env {\displaystyle T_{\text{env}}} is the temperature of the environment; i.e. the temperature suitably far from the surface
? T ( t ) = T ( t ) - T env {\displaystyle \Delta T(t)=T(t)-T_{\text{env}}} is the time-dependent thermal gradient between environment and object
I remeber it well !!Wink

If only RRM had put it in these simplified terms it would have made soooooo much sense soooooo much sooner. Thanks for clearing it up HD, I've always had a soft spot for FourierHappy

Cornersteady replied on 21/10/2016 19:16

Posted on 21/10/2016 19:16

I hate to cool off the apparent fantastic increased interest in physics on CT but there is a huge error in the first line of that equation.

it should be dQ/dt not dQdt (ie written as a fraction - even though of course differentials are not fractions but can be treated as such in their solving)

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