Wild overnight parking- Scotland

Many councils appear to have a "keep out" mentality yet complain when their town/village is dying for lack of trade. Providing overnight parking, possibly with black/grey/fresh provision for a nominal fee would be far more welcoming rather than encouraging potential visitors to keep on driving. A 48/72 hour restriction on use of facilities with a 'prompt removal/towing policy enforced' would prevent permanent/long term settling.

The problem with many sites is that they provide services that aren't required by most motorhomers and charge substantially for doing so.

Nimbyism seems a peculiarly English trait.

I met a lady at a party - a respectable lady and a respectable party - and she told me about touring with a Motorhome in Britain. 

Her opening shot was I hate caravan sites, so I listened.  Her objection was that a motorhome touring lifestyle did not lend itself to planning a route and booking sites in advance - and certainly not paying in advance when she had no idea whether or when she would arrive somewhere. Or whether she would even set off if the weather was bad.

She was an independent spirit and not taken with the idea of not being allowed into a site before 1300 and told to leave by midday - she said I stop when I want to stop. And in no way was she prepared to tell a warden on arrival how long she would be staying and pay upfront for that time. She might stay or she might  not. . She wasn’t over keen on wardens anyway and not a lady to be bossed about or told what to do. 

She decidedly didn’t like sites with tarmac roadways and street lights but when Isuggested CLs she sniffed and said they are mostly in the middle of nowhere - an idea from the past which has outlived it’s time. And she would have to join a Club to use them.

There are Club  members who switch from caravan to motorhome late on in life who will continue to toe the line and stay at the sort of sites they have always used, but the new wave of motorhomers have ideas which those Club members  will never comprehend. 

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There are two ways for an authority to 'deal' with MHs...

in my experience (15 years of continental travel using all sorts of MH stop over points) if vans are welcomed, folk respect what's been provided and do respond by not abusing things and they spend time (and money) in the community"

i think we have been round this loop previous in another post, but just to reiterate, after 14 years of having lived in an area that was blighted by MH's, all i can say is "good riddance to bad rubbish" and we had a lot of that, portable bbq's dumped in plastic bins overnight causing many fires and destroying the bins, disgusting stuff found buried on beaches, Dyno rod having to be called out frequently to the public loo's that were made available, car parks and the promenade full of Mh's many staying for several days, Gosport/Fareham LC's introuduced car parking fees, height barriers on most car parks, and banned overnight camping/sleeping in MH's etc, they did provide a number of special bays for MH's but these are seldom used as you have to pay.

Did local business suffer?, dont think so, most of those that arrived in MH''s stopped at the major supermarkets which they passed en-route. Now we have the occasional MH a few camper vans, but we did recover our car parks and our promenade much to the delight of the many, especially elderly residents who live in the area, the only down side i can see is an increase in street parking close to beaches as a result of the introduction of charging to park.  

"but the new wave of motorhomers have ideas which those Club members will never comprehend"

very true, but, as someone said i think up post, within this "new wave of motorhomers" are those who have never experienced camping at all, and just do not understand that it is not right to dump your cassette in the sea, or your grey waste down the local drains, or worse still leave the stock cock open and allow grey waste to run out into the carpark, "Oh! it is only washing up water" they say when challenged. 

Rufs, I'm certainly not saying all MHers are saints, however I've never (ever) seen anyone dumping a cassette load into a hedge or anywhere other than the correct areas.

as others have said, real off grid MHers will even take a spare cassette to extend off grid stays to 6 days or so....if they were partial to hedge dumping, why would they bother with a 2nd one?

We can off grid for 6/7 days without the need for water or grey waste...but we'd need somewhere to empty the cassette...if we wanted more time I'd get a second cassette.

perhaps it's a uk thing...this careless waste you see...in every other country I've been in (France, Spain, Portugal, Belgium, Holland, Germany, Denmark) I don't see the things you describe....perhaps I don't monitor the situation in the same way...im just on an aire doing my own thing.

perhaps (UK?) folk don't have the same respect, perhaps they feel it's their 'right' to do these things? I don't know...but it's not something I see despite using many, many Aires..

the write ups and reviews I see regularly on sites like park4night are so 'grateful to the local community' for the provision of the service...we/they realise how lucky we are to have these pretty well everywhere.

different mentality, I reckon.

I get your points, but the 'criticism' of off gridding MHers has been around since well before Covid etc...

despite what some say about Aires there's a certain amount of the real freedom of touring in that system, where folk don't need to book, decide where they're heading, pull in when they like not to a schedule etc...

It's this freedom that many swear by when comparing touring attitudes here and away.

In the UK CAMPRA is working hard to move things along but IMV the tide of MH ownership is outgrowing the rate of any fledgling overnight provision.

in France, for example, pretty much EVERY town or village has such provision along with thousands more dotted along coastlines, in forests, in the mountains and not forgetting large cities which might have several according to its size.

we are so grateful for the historic development of that system and wish we had something similar here but I know its will never happen.

No one does anything here without making a buck, just look at car parking charges...what should a MH park for 24hrs for free when a car is....£x?

Why does it work in France? the cars don't pay either🤷🏻‍♂️(Gallic shrug😉)

Moderator comment: Post slightly edited.

"Rufs, I'm certainly not saying all MHers are saints, however I've never (ever) seen anyone dumping a cassette load into a hedge or anywhere other than the correct areas"

our area did seem to fair particularly badly, one of the reasons i feel, is that we have several very good car parks on the sea front with good access and views across to the IOW etc,

i and some of my swimming friends etc probably see lots you would not sea, i walk/cycle/swim these areas almost daily in different areas depending on tide times, I speak to lots of different people and have not spoken to any locals who do not think the LC's did the right thing, we do get some moans and groans from the old folk who cannot walk to the beach but used to drive down do a bit of walking, have a cuppa and read of newspaper etc, FOC, now they have to pay.

We are in France at the moment, we’ve visited since 1989, this time from Calais down to Provence now on the way back. We tow, so aires are not open to us as stopovers, but they seem well used and properly used by all we have seen and they aren’t vile filthy places. Off the motorways, every village/parish etc., seems to have a MH service point and they are very frequently signposted on the highways and byways. This is the answer and heavy penalties for those who don’t use them. Of course, money has to be found to finance and maintain such facilities, so who pays? Tourist tax? Road tolls?

I would say our current touring attitude is one of spontaneity and enjoying places that are special to us, be it rural or urban. We have no wish to upset anyone though in doing this, so are seeking out legal stopovers, and wouldn’t dream of leaving a mess or being a nuisance to anyone. We don’t however dismiss any form of stopover, this would be merely cutting off our noses to spite our faces. So we grin and bear sites that have (usually too many) rules, embrace thankfully the lovely sites where things are done on trust, and if we find a good spot provided by organisations like pubs, LA’s, Forestry, NT, etc… we give them a go.

The only thing I would say, is that you do have to be careful in this country. (Cannot comment around overseas, haven’t done it yet, but it will happen). There are some very unfriendly communities, who will want barriers to keep their personal bit of paradise free from visitors. There is a very real threat in terms of crime, we have moved on from a couple of what seemed nice places when we found drug dealing going on, local low life’s getting together to just be a nuisance, etc… There are elements of this in almost any urban area, and rural locations have their own issues.  

We’ve also witnessed some appalling behaviour from some tourers, hypocrites that would condemn the Travelling community, yet seem to think that it’s ok for them to litter, not pay even a token amount for a service provided, etc.. Thankfully such sights have been rare, but I do wonder at times if this country has an attitude problem over certain issues, driven by elements of a nasty press. A lot of folks just enjoying certain hobbies, lifestyles get pilloried at times by a blinkered but vocal few. Very sad😞 

I don't know the answer to your question, C, but I expect the administrative process will be different to here anyway...

I do know that the local Mairie is usually responsible for the administration do the Aires, some are often situated behind the Town Hall (again, every village has one...)...

we went to one once, thus situated and saw a notice stating that we could only stay 48 hours. As I didn't know how the timing was managed, I went into the town hall to check, met the Mayor who welcomed us to his village and stated with enthusiasm that we were welcome to stay as long as we liked👍

im not quite sure what or why it is, but there is certainly something different over there in those who use and manage both ends of the facility. 

don't mean to get too far away from the OP which is about wild camping in Scotland, not comparing 'Aires' in the uk with those overseas, but the system could well be an answer but it needs a decision from 'on high' along with funding  if something is going to be done to keep pace with those needing legal places to stay.

the sort of folk who enjoy this type of touring cant/won't be forced onto campsites...they'll just shrug their shoulders and head where they are more welcome.

these initiatives have to be two way win-win and, as mentioned by CY above, putting a time limit on duration and a towaway clause in the T/C keep usage to those who are happy with these arrangements.

below is the wonderful Aire at St Martin de Re, a world Heritage site where between November and March you can stay for €5 (£4.30) a night for as many nights as you like. In 'peak' is appallingly expensive at €10 (£8.60) and limited to 72 hours parking.

service bourne and rubbish disposal adjacent.