Congratulations ....

Me too Rocky- I have 2 kids that went to Uni- one became a qualified teacher, the other took business studies and finance and has done extremely well for himself but not as a direct result of his degree as it happens. They have both only just paid their loans off after 10yrs or so as I said- good hard working kids, I don't dispute that -  shame about the system though! 

I do wonder though why I read of University professors, of all people, saying that the quality of some students now, is below what is expected and below what they have had in the past- some can't even read and write properly! Not my words before you jump on my back. The other thing I wonder about is 'Why and How did 'clearing centres' come about? May I suggest a reason- because if they don't fill the degree course,  the University in question does not receive full funding!! So what do they do- they search around and fill up with students who, let's face it,  did not make the grade- now, is that lowering standards? I would argue it is. Money is more important than results. Moulesy, I absolutely get your argument about your Maths students- a maths student is a very special animal- get one calc  wrong and it's all wrong- there really is no wriggle room for such students- they HAVE to get it right- you are either brilliant or you fail- simple - and there are other degrees that follow a similar pattern like engineering, physics etc but unfortunately, there are those degrees that don't. I won't go on as I have always respected your posts Moulesy and of course that hasn't changed but there are students and students- they all (with a few exceptions) work very hard but I would have to be daft not to see that some are just not up to the task they set themselves and that others who should know better, have set them too. 

I fully agree with you M on all counts.

As an examiner at A level (just spent an evening doing requested remarks - no changes there usually isn't in maths) I can assure that papers set today are the equal of those in past years. In fact they have got a little harder with more unstructured questions coming in. 

also the new GCSE specifications (that's a syllabus in old speak) have been made far harder with topics from A level now been introduced into the higher level and some higher level topics have now gone into foundation level.

Also Merve you're showing a slight lack of knowledge of how exams work. they are norm referenced not criteria referenced, that means that whether the exam is a hard one or easier that year only the top 5% (say) will get the top grade and so on down the grades. So it's the top students who get the top grades every year, in effect it doesn't matter how easy or hard the exam is, it is impossible exactly to get the same level of difficulty each year. This norm referencing has been going on for a very very long time btw

again if you can post some evidence of where you think this dumbing down has actually happened that would be useful

a maths student is a very special animal- get one calc wrong and it's all wrong- there really is no wriggle room for such students- they HAVE to get it right- you are either brilliant or you fail- simple

Again you show a complete lack of understanding of how maths papers are marked and in reality how maths works, It is just not like you describe. So you are saying that a students obtains a C grade as they answered 4 fully correct and four fully incorrect ? That is just plain nonsense. I have been remarking papers ( a students pays for this if they think they should have got a better mark) this evening and it is obvious why the students have requested a remark. They have indeed answered all the questions but have made errors along the way, perhaps scoring five out of eight marks on a particular question.

It is not all right or wrong as you suggest in maths. There are method marks (M) and there are accuracy marks (A), there are also simple recall knowledge marks (B), all of these come together to obtain a raw score on the paper which is then processed so one or two single marks will not change a grade boundary and then norm referenced to obtain a grade.

I think this is a thread where we should take notice of the professionals rather that the hearsay posted by lay people.

We've found before on CT that there are people only too quick to knock teachers, the education system as a whole and the standards of students. It loses impact after a while and becomes dreary.

Why don't we simply accept that the professionals amongst us have a far better idea of what's going on than those of us who are way, way out of touch?

Congratulations to all students for their achievements.  

Both our children went to uni and I was in the fortunate position of being able to fund all their accommodation and educational material expenses. They took out small loans for all the other stuff.  They had to start repaying their loans nearly straight away as they both got good, reasonably well paid employment.  If we are to believe it the student loan system (Guardian) is 100 billion in the red with little or no likelihood of it being paid off.

I do have some sympathy with the view that too many young people go to uni when you see a drop out rate of nearly 10% in the first year (difficult to get exact figures).  In line with a lot counties we need a lot more technicians rather than engineers.  Until recently our daughter worked at a local college, they could get loads of hairdressers etc, but very often technician apprenticeships were under subscribed

But we all have our own experiences and views.  My wife worked in a school for over 20 years and we regularly socialise with a number of her colleagues and ex colleagues and it's interesting to listen to their interaction.

I wouldn't be presumptuous enough to believe that because I worked in my industry for 40 years that my view is the right one.   

Merve wrote

Many of these 'Universities ' were nothing but Polytechnics a few years ago- now they are Universities. I'm not getting at the students but the system they find themselves in.

Not sure why you are so disparaging about Polytechnics Merve. When I went to Kingston 40+ years ago it was a Polytechnic. However, the honours degree courses were all set and administered by a University. They were just taught by the Polytechnic. Indeed we had to travel into London every day for our finals, as we were not allowed to sit them at the Poly. Now they are Universities, I assume they set there own exams. Whatever, Kingston is still highly regarded, which is why I fail to understand the point you are trying to make.

My interest isn't of how the system is built or how it is governed but of the countless hours put in by the students & teachers, blood sweat & tears to either do better or to ensure the students have the best chances. That is(to me) worthy of both my respect & admiration. I for one will not knock that level of commitment. I did my schooling many years ago, today is a different world of learning & employment. I don't give a stuff what hearsay or Frank down the pub says. I have built my opinion of real live people who I know, they are all head & shoulders above me & are deserving of support not pot shots at their achievements.

I am not knocking Polys. They have produced excellent people. I accept that we have professionals on here and that I am no doubt at a disadvantage. I will therefore retreat from what I was saying. The perception is though , and this can't be denied, the Education of our children is less than perfect. That's why my two daughters are home schooling. My SIL (not Frank down the pub!)  is head of dept at a school in Somerset. She would be the first to tell you that there are rubbish teachers and that they can't be got fit rid of because of the unions. Anyway, I apologise for ruffling feathers. If my posts are off mark I am in the boat with many in this country that think there is something wrong with the education system and again, I'm not blaming the professionals who work hard to get the best out of our kids and although Rocky seems to just want to have a  go ,as I said before which seems to have gone unnoticed, I admire the work that all involved put in, I blame the system that continually interferes with education.