Adding CL Hookups where grid power is lacking

No need to be sorry.  As long as I am getting a balanced view of the audience then it not being worth while is an equally useful thing to learn!

The cost saving is in the removal of the need to get a beefier feed from the national grid.  Small holdings etc often only have a single phase 100amp supply - often not leaving enough power to install at all.  The big cost is paying for the electric company to add more power to the premises, not in the cost of the install.  As I say the Owner I spoke to was quoted 10k for this.  A similar quote came in for our families farm to go three phase.  More remote places may get even crazier quotes.  That is just from the next property down.

Cost of usage reduction will be insignificant in comparison.

If that is true that people would want 'all or nothing' then it wouldn't be worth while.  This doesn't seem to be the case though for example at the subsection of the dorset steam fair we attend.  People in our section are desperate to get even a small amount of supply to power their fridges and lights.  In turn we are happier there are less generators running!

James

We use gas to run appliances and heating inc water heating. Solar keeps the battery going, we don't watch much TV. We have solar chargers for small devices and a solar radio etc. I think we're either or, we like EHU, we like solar. Depends where we are but we're not desperate for EHU.

Cool thanks for the feedback.  so you'd be on the fence.  No one so far especially interested in the idea!

It may be that the CL consuming community are happy to be off grid and so the need isn't all that strong. 

In which case the general business case to add EHU to a site is pretty week moving forward anyway!  This might be because solar is being embraced quite strongly.  The club might consider doing a survey on this to stop further CLs paying for EHU as the cost is very high and I bet it takes them years to ever recoop it!

James

Wow! Traffic lights? Allocated turns for power?

100 watt solar panel & refillable gas bottle.

So much simpler.

"Does your solar allow enough feed in to the battery in order to run the fridge on battery over night? "

Don't forget, James, that the fridge cooling element never runs from the leisure battery no matter how the battery is charged.

Perhaps it would be simpler and cheaper for the CL owner to install a silent running genny capable of producing around 50amp to power the hookups. This would also make it legal for the CL owner to sell metered electricity if he wished.

Brue and DAveCyn have outlined how most 'manage' on a low amp or non EHU site....most who camp this way will have invested in a solar panel and a way of getting their gas very cheaply, usually by refil LPG pump.

this set up 'kills two birds' as the CL owner doesn't have to provide 16A power across the site, and customers who heat water and van, and cook and run fridge with gas also don't need a heavy supply...

a solar panel will charge a leisure battery which in turn allows charging of phones etc, running a TV, water pump, heating fan etc....

i agree with others above, regulating supply on a 'rolling basis' is a bit complex....

if a site (say) installs breakers at a prescribed level (6A, 10A) everyone knows that this will be the amount they have to use whenever they want it...

however, the cost to install EHU (and then restrict it) is the same as installing other levels....so no real saving....

so, for most sites (and therefore, customers) it's all or nothing....EHU at a certain level or none at all...

however, for those who wish to have the flexibility to enjoy all types of sites and supply levels (incl non EHU) the solar panel/refillable gas is the easiest way.

you mentioned that you don't have an SP and you said gas was expensive (it is if you buy it in 6kg bottles) but if you did decide to enjoy more non EHU sites then these two enhancements will free you of EHU (and sites will be a lot cheaper and probably quieter) and of a lot of head scratching over regulating supply....

good post but a bit too complex I feel.....good luck.

Dynamic Time Division Multiplex does seem a bit complicated for the user to get much enjoyment out of its use.

However, a simple to fit kit that would turn off the heating when the kettle, etc was switched on would be very useful for many on sites, CLs and rallys with low current availabliity   And, dare I say, for the heavy current users on the 16 ampere sites!

I agree with Nav. We would certainly be interested in the kit for switching from one form of heating to another, eg kettle to mircowave oven, mw to heater etc. We would only be interested in a full EHU system.

I recall having been in a CL in the Cotswolds about 3 years ago and the owner went to great lengths to tell on his site that we had to keep power consumption low as all his bollards were only rated at 10 amps....Later I looked at 3 different bollards on his site and all his mcb’s were clearly seen through the plastic window and all were 16 amp.

Hi James,
a very interesting idea and discussion, but I'm not convinced that the underlying problem exists, or is widespread enough to justify the development.

By way of background, we can see things from 2 points of view:

• We have a busy CL in a rural area with 16A EHU which we successfully power from the same domestic electricity supply as our house. 
• We are caravanners ourselves and have used our caravan 'off-grid' for 3-4 days at a time with no problem (and no solar panel or generator).

We've had our CL for over 15 years and every power-outage (apart from a lightning strike) has been narrowed-down to a faulty appliance in a guest's caravan.  The underlying electricity supply has not been the issue.  We stick to the 5-van rule but are open all year and can be full in Winter months when electricity usage is at its highest.

The other aspect is how your idea might be marketed by the Club or CL Owners to potential guests. 

My impression from the questions that people ask when booking is that many think that they need a 16A supply, when the reality is that they could easily manage with 10A (or just their own battery & gas). We therefore stress that we have 16A EHU as part of our marketing.

Whilst I accept that location is often key to selecting a CL, my impression is that CL users fall into two distinct groups, which seems to be a lifestyle choice:

• those who want EHU (and perhaps fear that the world will come to an end if they don't have 16A),
• those who are happy off-grid (and choose non-EHU CLs because they are quieter and cheaper). 
  These folk tend to have invested far more in gadgetry such as solar panels, generators and wind turbines than it would have cost to stay many nights on our CL at @ £12 per night including EHU.

Many CLs without EHU offer battery charging facilities.

Your suggestion would probably need an extra symbol in the Sites Directory to indicate 'variable EHU', and I think that this would be too complicated for folk who regard EHU as a bi-polar 'either / or'.

The other question is 'does the demand justify the development'?  My impression is that newcomers to caravanning expect mod-cons including 'full' 16A EHU and if CL does not offer that, their pitch bookings will be low.

• We get well-above the national average number of bookings for a CL and charge £12 per night. 
• Two miles from us, a non-EHU CL (Manoravon) charging only £6 per night, closed after a single season because they only had a handful of bookings in the whole year. I'm not convinced that your 'variable EHU' concept would have been well-enough understood to attract members who think they need full 16A.

In summary - an interesting idea, but if a landowner cannot power 5 EHUs from their domestic supply, it might mean that they have another business that is using the power.  The cost of upgrading the supply should perhaps rest with the other business rather than be attributed to the CL.  A neighbour was in this situation and it was far cheaper for him to add an extra single-phase supply than change to 3-phase.

Ian Kelly

01691 622951
Holiday@BirchHill.co.uk

Birch Hill, The Cross, Ellesmere, Shropshire, SY12 0LP
www.BirchHill.co.uk

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