Length of motorhome

we have the apache 632 with a transverse rear bed which is just under 4ft wide..... it can get just a bit cosy! we are going to the nec to see what other options there are. we just wanted to see if the length was a significant issue. we are also very aware of the payload issue but thanks for reminding me.

Thank you so much for the help. I will measure the overhang of ours for comparison when we go to the NEC and take a tape measure. the rear drag wheels sound like a good insurance policy

Very interested in this post as we have an Eldiss 175 which has a long overhang and unfortunately we have had two scrapes and have to have a replacement 'bumper' fitted.    Can anyone advise where we can purchase these 'drag wheels' for after sales fitting so that they can help eliminate the problem.

wendy, i dont mean to put you off your prospective shiny new van but (i feel) this is important....

yes, the latest 632 has grown and put on weight BUT is only available on the light chassis, so payload issues are worse than your current van

the following is from the autotrail website weight calculator for two up and no water or other extras

Maximum authorised weight 3500

Number of passenger seats 1

Passengers allowance (nominal weight of passenger) 75

Passengers personal allowance 94 (47kg for each of your personal effects, clothes perhaps...)

Weight of selected options 0

Weight remaining 46kg......This is the issue!

46kg remaining payload with no water, chairs, tables, bbq, bikes, tools, hoses, water carriers, additional leads or any or AT factory fit or dealer fit options.

so, IMHO definitely unworkable at that weight.

however, there is a 3850kg upgrade which appears to give 'more payload' however the axle limits dont change, so that rear axle will still be pretty close to its limit of 2000kg.

you will need C1 on your license to drive with any upgrade.

if you are at all interested in this van i would say you MUST get the dealer to weigh the actual van (with you both aboard and a tank of water) as part of the sale deal and get an accurate 'spare capacity' figure for the rear axle, and you must know the weight of what you intend to carry.

re the beds....as well as the whole van growing, the rear bed is a tad wider at 1.35m....but still typically UK 'slim'.. despite this being a 7.36m van..

just to give you an idea of how different markets place more emphasis on different elements, our German van is a metre shorter than yours yet has a rear bed 1.47m wide and the drop down cab bed is 1.60m wide.

i guess you are after a garage style van (under the bed) perhaps for bikes?....if so, there may well others (certainly continental vans, where this layout is very common) that fit the bill.

also, at £60k+ there will be many top line 1-2 year old premium branded vans (double floor, A class, Alde heating, garage etc) on the market which might give you the sort of van that would be out of reach new.

good luck, but watch that weight.

We switched to a motorhome over three years ago and cut down massively on the equipment that we used to carry in the caravan and car. No loungers, no picnic table, tiny awning mat and so on. I was quite surprised then when I weighed it fully loaded (admittedly with a full freshwater tank) and found I was only about 60kg within the total 3500kg. So, around 500 kg payload with the minimum of equipment (and two lightweight passengers!). 

BoleroBoy has quite rightly raised this payload issue a few times and it is extremely important. I should also mention that I am close to the rear axle maximum weight of 2000 kg.

We have looked at many different motorhomes on our travels through Europe and researched at the Show and on-line. The fact is that there are a large number of motorhomes that have totally inadequate payloads and it is almost false representation for manufacturers to sell them as 3500 kg when a weight upgrade will almost certainly be needed. No wonder they quietly state, for example, that the fresh water should be limited to 20 litres when travelling despite the 100 - 150 litre capacity.

Fine, most can be up-plated, but there are many issues once you go over 3500kg - licence for over 70’s, speed limits on the continent, weight restrictions etc. I wonder how many buyers are aware of all this?

good post from Hitch, some real world weight advice from a user of a fairly small van.

although our van was delivered (from stock) already upplated to 3850kg, for the reasons Hitch mentions above, we choose (and are well able to) run at 3500kg...

we are actually 3420kg (incl wine allowance) all up, full fuel, full water, gas, and kit for a three month tour. our axle weights are fine as our small A class seems particularly well balanced front/rear.

start adding a metre to the length of Hitch's and my vans and you can see that running at 3500kg needs thought and care.

never believe any sales talk re payloads, nor take brochures as Gospel, there are disclaimers allowing for 5% +/- variances...on 3500kg this gives a leeway of 175kg....thats a huge chunk to lose, especially if you dont have it in the first place.  

as recommended above, due to potential variances, i had the dealer weigh our actual van prior to delivery as i wanted to be totally sure i had my 'weight' sums right.

as it happens, my fully loaded weight was within 20kg of my calculated weight.

the 632 is listed as having a MIRO (mass in running order) of 3275kg, for comparison my van is 2825kg...thats 450kg lighter.....yet with a fully loaded van, i run at just over 3400kg....that gives you some idea about how 'difficult' the 632 will be at 3500kg.

autotrails own weight calculator looked dodgy, but tackle it another way....

take the 3275kg MRO starting point....

† Mass in Running Order (MRO): The Mass in Running Order (MRO) is the mass of the empty vehicle including a 75kg allowance for the driver, the Diesel tank full and an LPG cylinder full. The MRO is calculated with the freshwater tank empty on all models and with one 13kg LPG cylinder..

now add the passenger at a nominal 75kg, plus 100ltr water (the tank holds 135 ltr) and the van now weighs 3450kg.....still totally empty.

no factory/dealer options, no clothes, bedding (blooming heavy), outside gear, crockery, cutlery, and everything else needed.

at 3650kg you have an extra 150kg, so a total payload of 200kg but using this will certainly bring the rear axle to its limit.

if you get to this point, there really isnt any further upgrade path on the light chassis.

other vans with similar layouts may have the option of being specified on the heavy chassis (4250kg) this would be far more suitable for a van of this length and MRO.

good luck.

Hi,  have a word with "Southdown Motor Homes" at Portsmouth,,they know all about drag wheels ,,as they are fitted as standard to " Concords" .

Thanks triky auto will get in touch with them and they might also be able to point me towards a dealer in the north east who can help.

Thanks bolero boy we are mostly going to look at layout options and hope to buy a 1-2yr old. We put the bikes on the back but like a garage for bbq, windbreaks etc

what sort of van do you have? it really is bed space that is the issue with ours and those figures are certainly worrying.

i have a Carthago (not our previous one that in my avatar) its the smallest model called Compactline as its only 2.12m wide. however, this is wide enough for the bed to be 1.96m long.

as the bed is fairly high, we have a full sized garage underneath and the bikes can just be wheeled in...away from elements and prying eyes. its also heated (drying coats etc) and has power for bike battery charging etc.

the slim width and 6.4m length means its just 6cm wider than a DUcato panel van but doesnt have the sloping sides which can make PVCs feel a bit claustrophobic. 

there are a couple used on ebay.

Adria (and Burstner, i think) do slim coachbuilts that easily run at 3500kg.

re the weight issues, will it be just the two of you?

do you have a C1 license to drive heavier vans?

will you be off gridding at all?....you may be thinking about solar panels and extra batteries which add weight.

are you heading for the continent or the uk or both...

there are also other layout vans (from 6m) which give a large lounge and great washroom facilities as they dont have a fixed bed, using a one piece drop down bed which will be as comfortable as a fixed bed, with no making it up each night as bedding stays in place.

with an A class van (full width cab), the drop down bed is transverse and covers the dash and cab seats,meaning the lounge is still usable, whereas with a normal coachbuilt, the bed will cover the lounge as the cab isnt wide enough to accommodate it.

most of these will be continental and will run at 3500kg.

for a completely different view which might highlight how this above style might work, check out Roller Team Pegaso 590, a 6m A class van with drop down bed, a little marvel of a van with loads of space. bang on your budget. comes with bike rack on the back.

transverse a class drop downs can also be extended to become singles as you then sleep longitudinally.

for a more upmarket version of the same layout see Frankia 640 SD.....will need to be used at your budget but this is a wonderful van if you can find one. SMC (newark) usually have one..

good luck.