Laika Kreos

And to clarify, it is not an expensive Fiat but an expensive conversion, although not unduly so by some standards.

Thanks BB 😃

4000 series around £65k

5000 series another £10k

7000 (A class) series £85k ish depending on spec

8000 (A class) series £95-100k depending on options...

I endorse BB’s comments on Fiat MH bases and engines. We too are on our 4th Motorhome with a Fiat base/engine. With two trips to Europe pa we average about 10k miles per year and have never had any problems with the Fiat units in over 15 years. The perception that Fiat engines are unreliable is a fallacy.

We have a Burstner Grand Panorama i920 next to us having to stayation    so have found work in UK ,as they live in it and cannot get back to Spain.   they do say in conversations we have had these last few days they have been here , that it is just not true vehicles from Europe are any more reliable or better made than UK especially the Bailey models

They in the 6 years of ownership have had internal leaks where there was not even some pipe work. they spent all yesterday evening repairing another water leak that had flooded the "garage" and all that was stored at floor level,  good job he and his OH are qualified plumbers ,the worst they had was when the pipe from the engine that was to heat the vehicle when engine running fractured and nearly caused the engine to seize as they have found non of the pipework is adequate or properly fixed which causes fractures with constant vibration when travelling as he says Fix it Again ,Tomorrow, applies to the whole vehicle

 Burstner sits pretty mid-range in the Hymer hierarchy. the Panorama hasnt been made for a while, in the main due to the vast (potential replacement) expense of its USP.....that enormous windscreen.

have you actually been in a Laika...or a N+B, Frankia, Carthago, Morelo, Concorde etc....

no better than a Bailey? a moot point, perhaps.

Bailey are certainly decent enough vans, but like most are built at the level reflecting their retail price.

ive seen a video of the Bailey factory 'construction' process.

have a look at one similar from Morelo and youll start to get some idea why these things cost such a lot more...

their production line is so sophisticated it can have a left hand drive vehicle followed by a right hand drive vehicle (and uk handed bodywork) and any number of variable chassis and conversion extras and modifications on successive vehicles.

they build mostly on Iveco and, not being happy that the standard driving position delivered what Morelo wanted in their overall design, it was changed completely to suit the conversion...obviously at huge expense, but they felt this was what was needed....

their plumbing, electrics, heating systems (more than one), aircon and chassis/suspension mods go so far beyond anything Bailey could consider offering where they are in the market.

'better' is a very subjective word.....however, I'll stick my neck out and suggest a Morelo might be 'better' built than a Bailey.

...but thats just my opinion.

in other areas of the market (notwithstanding the Burstner owner...and the Hymer chap you met a while back) the Fiat still has a pretty darn good reputation and vastly outstrips any other base vehicle on numbers for good reason.

The Sevel range of base vehicles is the cheap end of the base vehicle market  which helps pricing the finished article, and they also cater with their range of cabs,? to attract. converters

The comment about Bailey came from the Burstner owners, if Bailey made a  bigger more live in LV they would seriously think about getting one ,and it would also probably be much cheaper than what they have

I know it's luck of the draw but we had an early Fiat X250, a Merc Sprinter, a Pug Boxer X290 and now a Fiat X290. The Sprinter was the best of the bunch in every way, the Pug was faultless, the early Fiat was a pig and the current one developed an engine warning light issue just 30 mins after taking delivery of it. It’s too soon to say whether it will yet be forgiven but its auto box may well prove to be its saving grace .

The Sevel offerings are cheaper than, say, Sprinters and Sevel accommodate the MH market by supplying various cab chassis versions, some suited to taking Alko chassis extensions, and easily converted panel vans and mini buses. Consequently, we're not given a lot of choice of base vehicles by the converters. If we were, I would happily pay the extra £10k or so to have another Sprinter.

the further up market you go, the more options you can have...Merc (Sprinter, Artego), Iveco, Fiat tag axle, MAN etc...

eg you can have the same model Chic E line on Merc (FWD), fiat tag FWD or Iveco RWD.

at this level, chassis brands and serious hardware options are picked and ticked just like the sofa colour in a Swift..

Such choices aren't available on simple smaller PVCs with conventional UK layouts.

It's not a case of expense or not wishing to go upmarket for me but a matter of finding the right vehicle and the options are limited.