"Just Looking......"

https://www.hymer.com/en/models/motorhomes/integrated/hymer-exsis-i/grundrisse-und-daten.html?singleview=428

This would be better, but moving to the top of the budget!

Another contender......

http://www.buerstner.com/uk/motorhomes/ixeo_class/ixeo_time/floor_plans/details/model/ixeo-time-it-700_default.html

Interesting but too little payload left........

http://www.buerstner.com/uk/motorhomes/ixeo_class/ixeo/floor_plans/details/model/ixeo-it-680-g_default.html

slightly better payload......

http://www.buerstner.com/uk/motorhomes/integrated_models/aviano/floor_plans/details/model/aviano-i-700_default.html

Insurance cost us 394 with safeguard inc breakdown cover here and EU, unlimited mileage.  Comfort came out cheaper but its Aviva (Norwich Union) so would not trust them to pay up!!!  NFU were over 700 others around 500 so if you ring around you can get huge variants. Safeguard are aprt of Swinton and the people I spoke ot seemed to understand and know about Motorhomes.

Kjell, BB is giving you facts and figure but my gut instinct is that you are unlikely to achieve your ambition of getting everything you want at 3500kg. We did it with a decent payload but our van is only a 6.4m two berth. I fear you may need a rethink.

As for insurance, you'd probably be best to discuss it with an insurance company. We use NFU who are very helpful. The full NCD was transferred to the MH and it came out at almost the same price as our Shogun had been. That may give you some clues. Overnight parking has the same bearing on insuring our MH as it does a car. 

never one to give up on a challenge, but i have to agree with TW....as i said earlier, this is a big ask at 3.5t..

the most difficult thing is to be able to sleep 4 comfortably and to be able to store their kit and travel 'all up' withing the 3.5t limit.

if there were only the two of you, you would be able to have a 7m+ van, with island bed and walk in shower etc....

add in two extra berths and you start adding the difficulties...either lengthen the van, move to transverse beds to reduce length, go to a drop down bed but then one couple sleeps above the other with the resulting squeeze on headroom etc..

with a transverse rear bed and dropdown in the front, the carthago 138 would do the job weightwise at 6.4m....but....the bed is high and the van would be small for four people.....

typical 'family' MH on 3.5t wont appeal as they tend to have garages (for family clobber) over higher beds....a second drop down (ok) but often half (or even full) dinettes (for multiple seatbelts) and will feel totally cramped for lounging....

so....at the moment i reckon the easiest options are ......

continue with the caravan, bite the bullet and change the towcar and carry on as now, which you are familiar with...

or....check out the requirements for getting the C1 back and then you can explore a wider range of alternate solutions....

cant edit above post, however....

just had a thought....a smallish auto-sleepers (or similar) like TW/Hitchglitch have, but with an overcab style as opposed to their low profile versions, might give you the additional berths....

let the younger folk do the hopping up....

when theres just the two of you, youd have a largeish open plan lounge and reasonable shower etc.....

main issues....making up the bed, shortage of outdoor accesible storage for larger items, overcab 'styling' thats only a requirement occasionally...

advantages....easy(ish) to park when in use off site, meets the weight/berths criteria...

OH is still keen on a MH, but as I said on a previous discussion, I am not so keen, but trying to keep an open mind.

Having made a list of what we would like in a MH, we have realised that it does not fit with what I now have the licence to drive, or with what we realistically have space for on the driveway.

We also decided we want the possibility to be able to take the grandchildren along, so 4 belted seats and 4 berths,  and a model  that our daughter and husband could use, so under 3500kg.

We have therefore decided that a compromise is necessary, have abandoned Alde heating as a requirment, and OH is now looking at up to 7.5m (but preferably only 7m), under 3500kg models that still have most of what we would want.

Looking at the rear fixed bed models with the split toilet/shower arrangement, there are several under 3500kg and 7.5m,  but the big compromise is in kitchen space, and in the island bed types the storage space in the bedroom.

Have not found any UK built ones that combine our preferred size/layout with the under 3500kg requirement.

She now has a "shortlist" (actually quite long!) which includes  the Hymer Exsis 598 models (very nice), also (so far) similar ones from Rapido, Chausson, Burstner, Knaus, Adria and Dethleffs.

One that we also found interesting is the Burstner Ixeo it680G, which has a drop down bed as the main bed, rather than a fixed bed, so therefore more lounge and kitchen space,  a good rear bathroom, and good storage.  2 additional berths can be catered for by only partly lowering the bed. However, it is somewhat heavier than the fixed bed models, so limited payload.

The "basic" models are probably just a bit too basic for us, and adding the various things we would want is going to add weight, and ££££s.  It is all rather bewildering!

Hoping we may be able to see a few in the flesh in September when we head south.

Meantime, perhaps a MH owner could advise on engines?

Is the 130hp Fiat engine going to give a reasonable performance on hills?

To get a four berth/four travel seat van with "posh" facilities and four beds is always going to be difficult especially one that leaves a realistic payload after 2 adults + 2 adults/children and their kit. I would advise you to be very careful about payload and very sceptical about dealer pronouncements in tht regard. E.g. 1 adult + 2 children + full water could be 250 kilos leaving a small margin for everything else. My 130 bhp euro 5 engine is more than adequate for my van. The "new" Euro 6 "blue"peugeot/citroen engine has slightly more torque (340 compared with 320) and the 160 bhp version has the same amount of torque so probably not worth the extra £1000. The theoretical top speed of the van unconverted is 92 mph. We have hit 160kph on unrestricted sections of the autobahn so top speed is unlikely to be an issue.

the Carthago C-compactline 145QB ticks just about all the boxes and is a direct competitor for the Hymer Exsis-i models but even better built, and marginally better payloads...

if you are checking out the Hymers at the show, be sure to checkout the Carthago equivalents...

advantages.....very large beds (rear island and front drop down) yet with easy steps each side to the island bed..large storage in the garage, large water and gas capacities, double floor for winterisation and extra storage, slim design (only 212 cm wide) for easy driving, auto available

disadvantages will be....small kitchen, lack of worktop (but large storage drawers), lack of oven (one can be dealer fitted in lieu of one of the six drawers), wet room washroom design, though shower is a 'teleporter style' unit that is actually very roomy, small lounge for four but fine for two....

ill get some weight figures....

unladen weight...2780kg

ill guess miro at around 2950 incl driver and full water tank.

right....add in packs (pretty much essential)....around 120kg, gives 3070kg....start adding wind out awning (40kg) and satellite system (30kg) and you start to see where all this is going....now upto 3140 before you add your two other occupants (150kg)...now at 3290....

so....200kg left for all your (and their) stuff.....hoses, levelling blocks, cables, tables, chairs, bbq....etc, etc...

just about doable by making use of the 100kg of water i included, you can carry far less....say 20ltr.....

so, ive been wholly honest about weights, but ill wager there are many out there (including some on CT no doubt) who are blissfully unaware (or couldnt care) that they are running overweight.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CARTHAGO-COMPACTLINE-145QB-BRAND-NEW-2016-MODEL-UNREGISTERED-/232007677455?hash=item3604bc360f:g:bzEAAOSwAPlXgShf

http://www.carthago.com/en/motorhomes/integrated/c-compactline/technical-data/?tx_fahrzeugdaten_fzserie%5Buid%5D=2417&tx_fahrzeugdaten_fzserie%5Baction%5D=detail&tx_fahrzeugdaten_fzserie%5Bcontroller%5D=Serie&cHash=761fe81500968d1cf46f2ba69b531c16

Thanks for all your research BB!

I would say 90% of the time it would just be the 2 of us, but being able to add the grandchildren would be the ideal.  They are only 6 and 10, and quite slim, I'll need to get their Mum to weigh them.  They would only be along for a week or two, if they wanted to come at all.

DD and husband would be using the vehicle instead of us, not at the same time, so we are only thinking of additional sleeping space for 2 children.  They have no children as yet, but we keep dropping hints!

The shower space is obviously something we need to look closely at, find some examples, shoes off and try them out.  Several different types out there.

Beds.....would be either island, french  or the 2 singles like you have, all are easy to access.  High level rear transverse is out as a bit awkward.

OH also says I would need to pare down my toolkit!

Thanks for all your research BB!

I would say 90% of the time it would just be the 2 of us, but being able to add the grandchildren would be the ideal.  They are only 6 and 10, and quite slim, I'll need to get their Mum to weigh them. 

Write your comments here...in 2 years they would be 8 & 12 so would weigh a lot more remember.