Food for Thought

lol, some more interesting points...

AD, great fun, we even see the Dutch cycle to Supermercado, where they collect (an obviously massively heavy) baguette and its only 100m from the site entrance. 

weve seen toilet cassettes and aquarolls, wastemasters and wine boxes strapped (precariously) to various parts of bikes....

Micky, i havent asked Hitch specifically, but i think they use aires (service areas) from time to time and this would preclude the use of an electric heating product without very careful use of a large inverter, not recommended. so, perhaps a gas Cadac or equivalent might do on a non-ehu stop wherever.

Hitch, with regard to washing up, and considering your interest in Hymer, have a look at the B DL (Dynamic Line) 444, 6m, large dropdown bed (can be singles or a double), decent lounge, good washroom, a garage AND the largest kitchen youll see in a small van, with loads or work/prep space...

this is the nearest on the market to the terrific B544 of a couple of years ago.

no making up of beds, massive payload, large external storage....many pundits' Van Of 2017.....might be the odd last year model about going 'cheap'(er).

Hymer B DL 444

we were sorely tempted but just couldnt get the right deal from our local Hymer dealer, so went with the Carthago (which we love, incidently)

We had a good look at that one when we were looking last year.

Kitchen is huge, but OH commented that she would have been more than happy to sacrifice some of the kitchen workspace for a better washroom with a properly separate and large  shower.

We always cook meals in the van so I was rather sceptical over the mainly small kitchens in MHs, but OH reckoned she could work with it, using the  various adaptions already mentioned.

.many pundits' Van Of 2017.....might be the odd last year model about going 'cheap'(er).

Yep.......77 grand !

https://www.lowdhams.com/new-hymer-b-dl-444-motorhomes-57123.3

Very nice van tho'......

We saw the drop-down bed at the show yesterday. Funny because the bed was down as we walked in and I asked where the cab was (the bed obscures the front seats and dash). Thought it was a Caravan at first! It’s a clever arrangement and we should have looked more closely but being a B Class it looked too big. Another pre-conception to overcome.

I imagine a B Class feels somewhat different to drive than a Coachbuilt. Although it looks big, the length and height are the same as a Coachbuilt and I suppose it is just the greater width at the front makes it seem bigger.

Saw a model recently with twin drop down beds at cab end. Meant one of the couple could stay up whilst the other snoozed. Seemed a good idea but cannot for the life of me recall what make it was. 

chausson have (totally separate) twin single longitudinal beds in the fwd lounge area....

Hitch, the A-class cab 'thing' is primarily an illusion....its not 'too big' its just making more of the vans external dimensions...

eg, the 444 has a full length width of 2.20m (ours is 2.12m) which means the cab is also 2.20m wide.

a 'normal' Ducato cab is 2.06 wide.

the coachbuilt bit behind most 'cabs' is around 2.30-2.35m, so you get a wider body but a narrower cab.

in an A-class you dont get the situation where the cab 'might' go through a gap but 'perhaps' the rear wider bodywork might not.

with the latest 'wider' Baileys, the difference between cab and body is more marked than in some others.
with an A-class, if the front goes through, it all goes through..

the wider cab of an A-class also means that the cab seats spin far easier (no cab door armrests fouling the seats..).

now, the other real part of the illusion is the position of the windscreen, which is placed MUCH further forward, opening up the view outside as its deeper and wider.

the cab seats are actually in exactly the same position (relative to the cab base) as they are in 'normal' cabs....they just look different due to the windscreen being so much further away...

in fact, this type of van is far easier to place on the road and when parking as there is less 'hidden' bodywork, due to the cab being stretched out to the 'footprint' extremities....

looks/feels a bit odd at first drive, but after 5 minutes it all feels normal and the benefits of extra space and easier placement come through.

definitely nothing to be concerned about, and in a cab bed design like the 444, it can only work with an A-class.....this is why transverse drop downs in coachbuilts have to be pushed further back into the lounge.

if you (or anyone) would be happy sleeping in a fold away bed like these, then the one box flooplan (incl garage and large kitchen over it) really make great use of the space.

chausson and burstner are also pioneers of the 'dropdown one-box' designs, majoring on large rear washroom/wardrobes over the rear garage....however, neither are on an a-class....

Pilote (with its G600L) has this type of 6m layout with an A-class cab....

good hunting.

Thanks for that. I meant A Class of course, not B Class. Certainly true that if the rear will go through a gap the front will as well and that the Coachbuilt just has the illusion of being much smaller. I can see that the A Class has great space around the cab and your point about swivelling seats is well made.

Perhaps there a a natural progression: tent - Caravan - Coachbuilt - A Class. I suspect van conversions sit outside this progression being excellent but for very different reasons.

Looks like we will be off to the February show to do some more research.

That's the one, thanks BB. They are drop downs I think. Don't know much about this brand apart from the fact that it's part of the Triango group. 

although im not a huge fan of their 'cosmetic design finish' (colours/fabrics/furniture) i think they are one of the most forward thinking innovative companies around when it comes to floorpan layouts.

certainly not a 'more of the same but change the curtains' type of company.....