Is EHU metering a good investment?

GEandGJE replied on 28/11/2022 17:23

Posted on 28/11/2022 17:23

I was going to post this in the thread that has been Deleted User as a number of folk were saying that EHU Metering would make pitch prices cheaper, so Let's play the You Said, We Listened and Implemented game. This is my view based on my experience as an IT Infrastructure Project Manager and in IT Procurement.  To satisfy the We don't want EHU and want cheaper pitch prices group of people, the We only want to pay for the electricity we use group of people and the I'll pay whatever as I'm on holiday group of people, the clubs only option is to move to metered usage. How does the club do that and what investment would be needed. Lets estimate that the club has over 10,000 pitches with an average of 2 hookups per bollard that's 5,000 bollards that will need to be modified and/or replaced and some of those will need groundwork undertaken for new cabling etc, it will require  putting all pitches out of action and subsequent loss of income whilst the work takes place. This can't all be done at once and I think that a 5 year rollout period would be a stretch and it would take a dedicated team at HQ to manage. They would need to procure equipment, electrical installation teams, groundwork teams, IT systems and software to operate the metering and payments, negotiate contracts with all the power companies who supply the club sites and negotiate with any land owners. I don't think you would get much change from a £5 million investment of the clubs (our) money. Issues that the club would need to consider 1) leased sites where the land owner doesn't give permission for the work to be carried out or the lease will soon come to an end 2) the price per kW from each of the power suppliers will vary depending on contract length and renewal dates, so do they average that price out across all sites or do you have different EHU costs in different areas of the network 3) do you factor the suppliers standing charge into the  metered cost,  4) the club would need to move to a credit card only payment system where the payment for EUH used is automatically deducted at the end of your stay 5) a central dispute resolution team, as there will always be people who will challenge the bill and that shouldn't be the on site teams and finally the biggest question for the club, 6) what return on investment will the club get. I doubt very much that the savings made from the electricity used would come close to the investment needed therefore the remaining investment would need to come from reserves and most likely recouped from increased pitch prices. Lastly this would give the club a very inconsistent offering with not all sites offering metered EUH, the cost of EHU could vary from site to site and an even bigger price variance across the network. Not a very good Business Case in my view, in terms of both investment and inconvenience to the membership so I can't see it happening I'm afraid.

Navigateur replied on 22/01/2023 14:19

Posted on 22/01/2023 14:19

Does it have to be wired into the circuit in order to measure usage?

Yes.  I will take the cable from the 16 ampere EHU inlet to the fuse box and fit meter into it.  Just the same as in a domestic installation.  (  To save off-topic posts, I do have qualifications to do this.  )

DavidKlyne replied on 22/01/2023 15:24

Posted on 22/01/2023 14:19 by Navigateur

Does it have to be wired into the circuit in order to measure usage?

Yes.  I will take the cable from the 16 ampere EHU inlet to the fuse box and fit meter into it.  Just the same as in a domestic installation.  (  To save off-topic posts, I do have qualifications to do this.  )

Posted on 22/01/2023 15:24

I wondered if that would be the situation. I seem to recall similar devices that measure the incoming amps which is useful abroad where they can range between 4 and 16 amps. I am glad you mentioned the qualification bit as well because I imagine it's not a DIY job unless you are competent with electrics.

David

KjellNN replied on 22/01/2023 15:26

Posted on 22/01/2023 13:30 by DavidKlyne

It would also be interesting to know how the meter worked. Does it have to be wired into the circuit in order to measure usage? Look forward to you reporting back.

David

Posted on 22/01/2023 15:26

We have also installed a metering device, though it sounds different to what  Nav has purchased.

Ours has been in place about 10 years, at that time you could get ones that you clamp round the cable, or ones that go in the circuit like the ones you can plug in at home to measure what an individual appliance uses.

The one we use is of the latter type, the incoming EHU cable goes first to an additional consumer unit with MCB and RCD (see below *) , then to a socket into which the meter is plugged.  The continuing EHU cable is then plugged into the meter and goes  to the van's original consumer unit.

The metering device can then easily be removed if required.

*    I had to fit an additional MCB and RCD as, according to our dealer's electrician, the incoming EHU cable must not be cut and a plug and socket used before it enters a consumer unit with the required protection,  in case someone unplugged the meter and plugged something into the EHU directly.    He would not sign the service sheet otherwise.

 

nelliethehooker replied on 22/01/2023 20:26

Posted on 22/01/2023 20:26

As I said not a fair test.

I agree, CS. It's a non-facility site so those visiting it will, by that very nature, usually be using more electric than on a full facility site with heating water for showers etc, and not using the dishwashing sinks. Along with the already implemented price rise this would most likely see a reduction in the number that use the site and so I think that this is a way for the club to have an excuse to close yet another of those type of sites.

Navigateur replied on 23/01/2023 11:48

Posted on 23/01/2023 11:48

a socket into which the meter is plugged. The continuing EHU cable is then plugged into the meter and goes to the van's original consumer unit.

I wonder if this arrangement is limited to the usual domestic socket maximum of 13 ampers or can cope with the full 16 ampere load usually possible on a caravan site.

cyberyacht replied on 23/01/2023 11:58

Posted on 22/01/2023 20:26 by nelliethehooker

As I said not a fair test.

I agree, CS. It's a non-facility site so those visiting it will, by that very nature, usually be using more electric than on a full facility site with heating water for showers etc, and not using the dishwashing sinks. Along with the already implemented price rise this would most likely see a reduction in the number that use the site and so I think that this is a way for the club to have an excuse to close yet another of those type of sites.

Posted on 23/01/2023 11:58

If it is operating on a metered basis then those that are self-sufficient both in electricity and don't use facility blocks might be more attached to them if the price is right. If CAMC want to charge more for less then, I agree, it will probably kill it off.

SteveL replied on 23/01/2023 12:46

Posted on 23/01/2023 11:58 by cyberyacht

If it is operating on a metered basis then those that are self-sufficient both in electricity and don't use facility blocks might be more attached to them if the price is right. If CAMC want to charge more for less then, I agree, it will probably kill it off.

Posted on 23/01/2023 12:46

If CAMC want to charge more for less then, I agree, it will probably kill it off.


Particularly as currently the increase from 2 adults to 3 at both Clachan and Altnaharra is the same on both an EHU pitch and non EHU. That makes no sense, as 3 are bound to need more water heated than 2.🤔

peedee replied on 23/01/2023 16:36

Posted on 23/01/2023 16:36

I don't think it really matter where a trial is carried out, the Club should be able to deduce the effects from previous average occupancy. That is where SQ may be at a disadvantage because it will be a total revamp and so many changes could effect occupancy.

I would have thought a trial may be more about its operation rather than any effects on occupancy.

peedee

KjellNN replied on 23/01/2023 20:15

Posted on 23/01/2023 11:48 by Navigateur

a socket into which the meter is plugged. The continuing EHU cable is then plugged into the meter and goes to the van's original consumer unit.

I wonder if this arrangement is limited to the usual domestic socket maximum of 13 ampers or can cope with the full 16 ampere load usually possible on a caravan site.

Posted on 23/01/2023 20:15

No, not limited to 13amps as these are 16amp continental socket and plug.

Tammygirl replied on 23/01/2023 23:03

Posted on 23/01/2023 16:36 by peedee

I don't think it really matter where a trial is carried out, the Club should be able to deduce the effects from previous average occupancy. That is where SQ may be at a disadvantage because it will be a total revamp and so many changes could effect occupancy.

I would have thought a trial may be more about its operation rather than any effects on occupancy.

peedee

Posted on 23/01/2023 23:03

I would think trying to get any accurate trial data this year could be flawed. 

With the cost of living crisis, the price of club sites etc. I can see that folk who traditionally use club sites either going elsewhere or reducing how often they do go away. That is not going to be easy data to compare with previous years usage. 

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